So you’re fine if restaurants raise their prices 20%,
But not fine simply doing the math to add that 20% yourself?
What is the real difference there? The price would then be the same, you’d just get a lower “advertised” price. Functionally there is no difference tbh, besides the marketing of saying the burger is $9.99 instead of the $11.98 you’d pay with a 20% tip.
So now the menu says “burger, $11.99” but you don’t tip, ok, so, and? What really is the functional difference here? You’re paying the same price either way, the literal only difference is you have to do the math yourself or be an absolute prick for a 20% discount because fuck that server. Is it just hatred of math?
So you’re cool with employers paying people $2.70 an hour because they might get 20% in tips? Advertising a lower price for something but then seeing extra charges on the bill that you didn’t even know you agreed to when you sat down?
That makes more sense than just paying the people a livable wage and showing people the actual price they will pay?
No as I said, the employee feels a difference, tipping would then be mandatory as it is baked into the price, good for them.
But what is the actual functional difference TO YOU, the customer? Beyond having to do math and having a choice on tipping, of course. THAT was the question.
Yeah I am aware of my local customs and if I travel I learn the practices of the place I go, so “that doesn’t happen to me.” I see the price and know that tax will be added, and tip will be given, so math must be done. It really isn’t that difficult. If I went to Japan I wouldn’t tip, because it is rude there, so while I’d feel like a jerk not tipping as it is the culture I’m used to that is my problem to deal with instead of forcing them to take the cash.
Should it change? Sure. Has it? No. Until it does not tipping only harms those workers you claim to support.
Mmhmm, so you admit there’s functionally no difference other than having to do math and have no argument, but still refuse to admit I’m right so you’re gonna pull the “other nations” card and shut down?
Well guess what, “you’re” (those visiting I mean, I don’t have an airtag in your pocket) in this nation so get used to how it works here loser, I guess. You don’t see me going to Japan and shoving tips in their server’s pockets, because tipping is disrespectful there and despite it being a cultural difference between us I’m not too fucking stupid to adjust.
The funniest part to me is I’m the one with math anxiety (it’s real), and I’m still capable of doing this…
OHHHH you want a 20% discount but also want to feel morally superior to the server you stiffed to get that discount, after you’ve paid the owner their profits to perpetuate the system you claim to hate. Figures.
But the premise is that if everyone tipped 20% they’d have a livable wage, and instead of that they should just charge 20% more, so your $9.99+20% burger is now just $11.98. What is the difference for you?
The server experiences a difference, pricks who don’t tip no longer can’t, it’s built into the price, great. But the price of your bill being 20% more and that 20% going to them is functionally no different than if the price of your bill was 20% less and you tipped that 20%, the literal only differences are
A) it’s no longer a choice, it is now compulsory (good imo, fuck you non-tippers, if they make you do it through raising prices all the better for me)
B) you no longer have to do the math if you would have tipped. (Great, as a math anxiety haver that’s cool too. That said I have a calculator and it’s a low pressure environment, even ol’ math anxiety me isn’t that much of a pussy.)
I’m fine with either of those.
But really, is that it? Is that the only difference, you don’t want to do the math yourself? Why isn’t the tax the same, why aren’t you complaining that also isn’t included in the price?
Not doing the math is enough reason tbh. But also I’m not going to tip %20 for someone serving a beer compared to someone preparing a cocktail, it becomes unnecessarily complicated and as many other comments have pointed out, only the restaurant owner gets any real benefit.
Oh yes you would “tip” 20% if they just raised the price of the beer 20% and gave that to your server, it’s functionally the same but instead of being up to you it is forced, and it’s not called a tip anymore, but it’s still there.
And in the current system the server definitely benefits more from being tipped than being stiffed and working your table for free, the benefit is called “being able to afford rent this month,” either tip or boycott the whole restaurant, the owner doesn’t give a shit if you tip. If you manage to change the entire system then great but as it stands the only one you’re hurting by supporting the business and not tipping is the server.
Oh yes you would “tip” 20% if they just raised the price of the beer 20% and gave that to your server, it’s functionally the same but instead of being up to you it is forced, and it’s not called a tip anymore, but it’s still there.
If it is up to the customer, why they make it a big deal when the customer won’t pay the tip?
If the value is the tip is mandatory, then raise the price by including it.
All the tips do is subsidizing the restaurant owner, because they allow them to pay less.
Because when the customer doesn’t tip, it hurts the server who is already likely barely scraping by. It’s not a big deal if you’re a customer that doesn’t care about the worker, or if you’re the owner of the restaurant, however.
Sure, but until they do, don’t support exploitative businesses, or if you do, at least take care of the worker being exploited instead of doubling down on it and making it worse for them.
The tips aren’t only subsidizing the restaurant owner, they’re also what makes sure your server can eat and afford rent, until that changes not tipping only hurts the worker.
The shop inside a state doesn’t move, so their taxes stay exactly the same.
And tipping is bullshit too. Because it comes with a lot of stigma when the server is dependent on it to survive. A standard 20% increase will put the pressure on the employer when they want a raise, instead of the customers.
A) is already a good reason but the bigger one is that everyone is paid a living wage and this stops being the responsibility of the consumer (which I argue it isn’t already and shouldn’t be). And this happens regardless of their age, looks, skin colour, size of tits, luck in their schedule, or which part of the restaurant they work in.
Tax not being included is also insane. We’re not complaining about that because if we were to complain about everything retarded about the US there wouldn’t be enough space in this forum. You guys are getting screwed and played. Focus on that instead of insulting people who refuse to take part in it. It tip is so mandatory that you will insult whoever doesn’t tip then put it in the price. Simple as
Sure, and I suppose that means under the current system you do tip? If the tip becoming compulsory is good in your opinion, are you giving it freely now or do you have to be forced to do the right thing?
I don’t disagree that it should change, but it hasn’t, and until it does you only hurt the worker you claim to support by not tipping.
At least you’re consistent RE: tax. Some people only seem to hate that paying for their service isn’t included but the government? That’s fine. Wonder why, couldn’t have anything to do with it being easier to fuck over further an already exploited worker, I’m sure.
When I’m there I tip in some places (where there’s actual service involved for example. I’m not tipping anyone for literally picking something or a shelf, scanning it and handing it off to me on a counter) but definitely not 20%.
Regarding the tax it’s stupid but it might be less annoying to people because it’s not a choice. Paying the tax is not a problem. It exists for a good reason. What is a problem/stupid is that it’s hidden. That is not the case for tipping. And no I don’t want to further exploit or fuck workers. Quite the contrary. That’s why I advocate that it should be changed and that’s why if people don’t tip it might change.
If everyone stopped tipping tomorrow I guarantee you wages would change very quickly after. Yes it would hurt workers momentarily but its hints would improve after. Continuing to tip is just maintaining the status quo. You can keep waiting for things to change but they won’t as they haven’t for a long time. In fact it’s literally only getting worse with top % increasing.
Not great. Tbh if you can afford to travel internationally at all you’re doing so much better than every one of those servers. Even if your work is paying for it (and don’t act like they aren’t paying for your meals if they are sending you international, you could tip well on your boss’ dollar, like American business people do on their boss’ dollar when they come in).
Regarding the tax it’s stupid but it might be less annoying to people because it’s not a choice.
Neither is tipping if you ask those that rely on tipping. Boss doesn’t give a shit, he’ll tell you it is optional. You want to side with the exploiter? That’s certainly a choice, hope you don’t think you’re a good person though.
What is a problem/stupid is that it’s hidden. That is not the case for tipping
Oh so you admit tipping isn’t “hidden” and you know you’re supposed to, interesting. Sounds like you can figure it out, why are you complaining? Of course increasing the prices 20% and funneling it to the workers is better for them, they wouldn’t complain, but by your own admission you don’t tip that much, you’d be paying more. If you’re so about the worker why don’t you tip well without it being compulsory?
In fact imo 20% isn’t enough, increase the prices 30% or even 40% and give the worker that at your expense. Howboutdat?
If everyone stopped eating out entirely tomorrow I guarantee you wages would change very quickly after. Yes it would hurt your appetite momentarily but its hints would improve after. Continuing to eat out is just maintaining the status quo. You can keep pretending things will magically change but they won’t as they haven’t for a long time. In fact it’s literally only getting worse with top % increasing.
So you’re fine if restaurants raise their prices 20%,
But not fine simply doing the math to add that 20% yourself?
Yes, exactly.
What is the real difference there?
Well…
The price would then be the same, you’d just get a lower “advertised” price.
It’s this. It’s misleading advertising. And this kind of misleading advertising is proven to get people to spend more money, which is exactly why restaurants do it.
Same thing with not including tax in the advertised price. It’s all about screwing over the customer. Nothing else.
EDIT: I’m sorry people are being so hard on you. I’m not here to insult you and downvote you for having an opinion I dislike, lol
You’re cool lmao, those others are selfish pricks without a real argument who want a discount. They’re one step off from the people who make fake complaints to get free food but for some reason don’t want to return the “mistake” (it wasn’t a mistake, they want free food, they think I can’t remember 30 whole minutes ago but turns out I’m not a goldfish). You actually had something to add, not only is that “fine” but I like it!
Now, I do actually agree with you, but also functionally everyone here knows “burger $9.99” includes neither tax nor tip, so it is actually $9.99+10%tax+20%tip.
I’m not saying I’d be mad if we changed the menus to reflect those additional charges, but as it stands we don’t and as evidenced by this thread, whether the world agrees or not they know that is the custom. As such claims of false advertising are tenuous at best, you knew going in, and we know you knew, being a gaijin/n’wah is no excuse (at least after let’s say two days and two purchases).
For instance, though I’ve never been I know tipping is seen as rude in Japan, as such if I ever did get to visit (too poor, and that’s another thing if you can afford to travel like that you’re doing better than EVERY server so help them out like you would the homeless, they’re close enough to homeless as is), I wouldn’t be attempting to shove my American custom of tipping the workers onto them. Literally “same but reverse” here.
You’re right, it is in a sense “false advertising,” but still there’s not really a functional difference since everyone knows (or once they learn upon their first purchase if they didn’t, I suppose).
Idk how EU countries handle sales tax though, is it actually included on the sticker price like they do in New Hampshire, or should they be more used to this concept than they are letting on?
Yeah, what I’m saying is that I don’t want to be nickle and dimed, because it makes me feel like a victim of deceptive marketing.
No matter how strongly you know that your $9.99 burger is actually $14.00 (or more because tipping on the machine is often calculated after tax), psychological studies show that $9.99 tends to subconsciously mean “under $10” to people…and to services like Google Maps.
We’ve created this culture that it’s okay to subconsciously deceive the customer to extract an extra $0.01 (or $1.00) out of every purchase…and an extra 10%…and an extra 20% if it’s at a restaurant.
People who set a price limit for themselves of $20 will gladly go into a restaurant and buy something that’s $19.99 and feel like they’ve stayed within their budget.
This is the problem. I don’t like living somewhere where “buy a meal for under $10!” means I need to spend at least $15.
Yeah, not in the US. Here if it says $19.99 for anything anywhere you know that’s not including tax, because that is how it works here.
We can talk about how it should be all day and we likely agree, the difference is that you refuse to recognize what is, and think hurting the worker by not tipping but making them serve you for free (instead of boycotting exploitative businesses entirely) is the answer.
You’ve got the wrong person. I tip, and probably too much.
I don’t want tipping to end because I expect to pay less. I want it to end because it’s inherently deceptive to the customer. As is tax not being included in the sticker price.
those others are selfish pricks without a real argument who want a discount.
Lmao that’s not at all the problem and you’re here in bad faith if you act like you believe that it is. I just want servers to be paid a fair wage (minimum wage at the very least but the problems with minimum wage are an entirely different conversation) and not be expected to pay a multimillion dollar company’s employees for them
Not how it works, the employer goes “sucks don’t it?” And then when you get fed up enough to leave they hire another person who is about a week away from homelessness to continue the cycle. Your naivety is astounding.
It’s called VAT and its included in the price. Companies get taxed on category specific things and upcharge the base. We see what we pay here. In fact there are laws about price as well, if the price at the till differs from the shown price on the pricecard/tag they must sell it at the price shown or risk fines
Beware though, buy it first then go service desk for refunds
If you complain in store or at the register they run out and fix the tag
Still curious why servers deserve the ire for the practices of their boss and government, and why they should be the only ones hurt in the protest of these practices.
Why not bitch at the restaurant owners and government making the decisions, rather than making the servers being victimized and exploited by that system take the brunt of the effects? Why are all the complaints about tips, not tax, even though that is the exact same and on the exact same receipt?
It still seems a might selfish to me to make the poorest worker in the chain who made 0% of these decisions the bad guy, still go to the restaurant he works at and make him work for you for free against his will, not tip him, and get mad about his boss being a dick as if it is his fault at all,all because adding 20% yourself is hard. What’s next, you gonna blame your server for the food prices and state sales tax too? Gonna get mad at your bartender because the bar doesn’t stock blue curacao? It makes no sense, get mad at the guy making the decisions and stop supporting him, otherwise you’re just a dick using fake moral superiority for a 20% discount.
And still, if I go to your country it is my responsibility to learn and respect your local customs, example still Japan where tipping is rude, there’s no difference here beyond it being the opposite direction.
I think a little cultural awakening is happening thanks to the world Cup
I loved the answer to a question posed somewhere about the amount of Dutch people in the streets of Houston, someone wondered how they all got here on such short notice
The winning comment on that post was another example of why Americans are ill equipped to even begin to grow an inkling of understanding (note the lack of ire here)
Europeans have 5 weeks of holiday, their arrivals were more spread out
… Waking up yet?
Or should they have all come at once in order to not disturb the fragile American ecosystem as well
If by cultural awakening you mean “servers are going to hate you for not tipping” then congratulations, because that’s all you’re gonna get by supporting the exploitative business. It’s like yelling at an Amazon worker they work for a bad company when they just need to feed their family all while still supporting Amazon monetarily by using their services, you’re not helping as much as you think. Somehow everyone gets this and many boycott Amazon but instead of inconveniencing yourself for this one you just get mad at the lowest person on the totem pole and still support it.
Great for the Dutch. Those servers you’re stiffing don’t get any vacation and are only given enough hours to keep them a part time employee specifically so they don’t get benefits, and you feel good about stiffing them because of your moral high ground? Ooooook.
The blame is on the customer for supporting exploitative businesses with their money, doubly so if they also don’t tip.
This of course doesn’t absolve the boss, but fact of the matter is he doesn’t care if the worker gets tipped, he gets his when you pay the menu price, and if you don’t tip fuck the both of you, if you do then fuck my boss but you’re cool.
It’s like supporting Amazon monetarily and also railing against their unfair treatment of workers, either stop buying from Amazon or you don’t actually care.
Ok, you raise the price from $9.99 to $11.98 and no tips.
Cool. And?
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
And does this apply to sales tax, or does it only apply for tips? Why are you not also complaining that sales tax (dependant on state but for convo’s sake lets say 10%) isn’t included on the menu price as well? The government can require math but not your server? Seems arbitrary imo.
The heart of the matter is that the only one screwed by not tipping is the poor server, the boss gets his from the menu price so you’re still helping perpetuate the system if you patronize those establishments regardless of tipping or not, but really, other than making you pull out your phone calc what is the physical difference between paying “$9.99+20%” and “$11.98,” if not “just doing a little basic math?”
Well no, my argument is that whether the 20% is included in the bill or you have to do math you’re still paying the same price so what is the actual functional difference besides
A) making you do math
And
B) giving you the choice to be a prick for a 20% discount at the worker’s expense.
I’ve so far not heard any other differences but I have heard a lot of excuses for not ponying up that supposedly fine 20%.
And still nobody has answered why 10% for taxes not included is fine but 20% for tip not included is over the line.
It’s sounding like you’re all a bunch of selfish smegheads to me, honestly.
If you’re a prick for not tipping and it’s a discount rather than a bonus, then it’s absolutely an issue of the employer exploiting labor.
State sales tax would ideally be factored into the listed price, but regardless, it’s mandatory and baked into the bill. I don’t need to play games deciding if, when and how much to add on, which tipping requests have become.
Dine in? Sure, 20%. Get one beer from the bar? A burrito for take out?
You’re calling people selfish when there was no mention of not tipping, just that it’s a problematic system.
Sure it is, nobody is arguing that. But that is how it works currently, and not tipping won’t change that, it only hurts the employee and adds to their exploitation.
It is actually in the listed price in some states, but not in others. That oughta add to the confusion for ya lol. But then this brings up another question, many restaurants automatically add 20% to tables of 6+, so by your logic on taxes you’d prefer they just raise the menu price 20% but
it’s mandatory and baked into the bill. You don’t need to play games deciding if, when and how much to add on
So that’d be fine right? (Which iirc that’s what many of the restaurants actually are doing).
One beer from the bar I’ll just give them $1. If I can afford to give it to a homeless dude for literally no reason I don’t mind giving it to a bartender for pouring a draft, fuck math here’s a buck, it’s more than 20% but it is one dollar who cares.
“A burrito for take-out” where are you? Fast food? No tip. Local family owned restaurant? Probably not necessary but I’ll drop a few in the jar if I can, I love my local guys the food is just so fucking good.
Fair enough, if they don’t tip* then they’re selfish. I only worked in foodservice for about 13yr and in that time I never had a good tipper complain about tipping, so something tells me I’m probably right, but could be that everyone here is unlike all the complainers that came before them.
Tbh I’m sure one or two of them here do still tip, but I’m betting I’m right on average.
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
That customers are guaranteed to pay that money. Isn’t that obvious?
I guess it’s hard to understand if one has lived in the US all their life. Otherwise, including service charges in the bill is normal business practice anywhere else in the world.
And the fact that the OP is precisely about how foreigners don’t tip and how that is a issue for US service employees, is proof that the US as a whole should get rid of tipping and just increase prices.
What functionally changed FOR YOU, the customer? As I said the employee sees a change, people can no longer stiff them, great.
But aside from math and the ability to choose to be an asshole, what changes for the customer?
Sure, change the system. But as it stands now, this is the system, and unless you’re able to time machine back to before the world cup visitors got here in time to change it, then this is the system you’re visiting and you need to adapt. Just as I would need to adapt to your culture if I went wherever you live or I’d be the asshole, same goes here.
Sure, change the system. But as it stands now, this is the system, and unless you’re able to time machine back to before the world cup visitors got here in time to change it, then this is the system you’re visiting and you need to adapt. Just as I would need to adapt to your culture if I went wherever you live or I’d be the asshole, same goes here.
I find extremely amusing that if I were to choose not to partake of a custom that even you find controversial, I would be the asshole here.
The article says that some businesses are adding a 20% service surcharge. It seems to me that “the system” could very well be fixed, they just chose not to until they were forced to do so.
Some people here are complaining about that as well, they say it has to be on the menu price, some “would rather it be on the menu price, but that is better.”
If I had my guess it’s because “The EU™” doesn’t have an entirely homogenous opinion on tipping themselves, closer in opinion to each other though they may be. Point is though some consider that surcharge “not fixed.”
I’m also wondering if they’re only adding the surcharge for Euros which would be so funny. In any case the second you guys leave that goes back to normal, you’ve “fixed” nothing.
Hang on.
So you’re fine if restaurants raise their prices 20%,
But not fine simply doing the math to add that 20% yourself?
What is the real difference there? The price would then be the same, you’d just get a lower “advertised” price. Functionally there is no difference tbh, besides the marketing of saying the burger is $9.99 instead of the $11.98 you’d pay with a 20% tip.
So now the menu says “burger, $11.99” but you don’t tip, ok, so, and? What really is the functional difference here? You’re paying the same price either way, the literal only difference is you have to do the math yourself or be an absolute prick for a 20% discount because fuck that server. Is it just hatred of math?
So you’re cool with employers paying people $2.70 an hour because they might get 20% in tips? Advertising a lower price for something but then seeing extra charges on the bill that you didn’t even know you agreed to when you sat down?
That makes more sense than just paying the people a livable wage and showing people the actual price they will pay?
Brainwashed people think this way.
No as I said, the employee feels a difference, tipping would then be mandatory as it is baked into the price, good for them.
But what is the actual functional difference TO YOU, the customer? Beyond having to do math and having a choice on tipping, of course. THAT was the question.
Yeah I am aware of my local customs and if I travel I learn the practices of the place I go, so “that doesn’t happen to me.” I see the price and know that tax will be added, and tip will be given, so math must be done. It really isn’t that difficult. If I went to Japan I wouldn’t tip, because it is rude there, so while I’d feel like a jerk not tipping as it is the culture I’m used to that is my problem to deal with instead of forcing them to take the cash.
Should it change? Sure. Has it? No. Until it does not tipping only harms those workers you claim to support.
Here’s the thing. I don’t need something to affect me before I care. Some people really just can’t grasp that concept.
And by “caring” do you mean supporting the business and not tipping the worker?
I don’t like doing pointless things myself, especially when other nations have solved the problem.
Mmhmm, so you admit there’s functionally no difference other than having to do math and have no argument, but still refuse to admit I’m right so you’re gonna pull the “other nations” card and shut down?
Well guess what, “you’re” (those visiting I mean, I don’t have an airtag in your pocket) in this nation so get used to how it works here loser, I guess. You don’t see me going to Japan and shoving tips in their server’s pockets, because tipping is disrespectful there and despite it being a cultural difference between us I’m not too fucking stupid to adjust.
The funniest part to me is I’m the one with math anxiety (it’s real), and I’m still capable of doing this…
OHHHH you want a 20% discount but also want to feel morally superior to the server you stiffed to get that discount, after you’ve paid the owner their profits to perpetuate the system you claim to hate. Figures.
Because tipping is inherently biased (there’s plenty of data that shows that it’s unfair af) plus the whole history of why it exists (read it up).
Pay your workers a living wage and get rid of the excessive tipping culture you have there. It’s also bleeding into our side of the pond
Since you are already calling people loser it tells me everything I need to know about you.
Cheers
Right, sure.
But the premise is that if everyone tipped 20% they’d have a livable wage, and instead of that they should just charge 20% more, so your $9.99+20% burger is now just $11.98. What is the difference for you?
The server experiences a difference, pricks who don’t tip no longer can’t, it’s built into the price, great. But the price of your bill being 20% more and that 20% going to them is functionally no different than if the price of your bill was 20% less and you tipped that 20%, the literal only differences are
A) it’s no longer a choice, it is now compulsory (good imo, fuck you non-tippers, if they make you do it through raising prices all the better for me)
B) you no longer have to do the math if you would have tipped. (Great, as a math anxiety haver that’s cool too. That said I have a calculator and it’s a low pressure environment, even ol’ math anxiety me isn’t that much of a pussy.)
I’m fine with either of those.
But really, is that it? Is that the only difference, you don’t want to do the math yourself? Why isn’t the tax the same, why aren’t you complaining that also isn’t included in the price?
Not doing the math is enough reason tbh. But also I’m not going to tip %20 for someone serving a beer compared to someone preparing a cocktail, it becomes unnecessarily complicated and as many other comments have pointed out, only the restaurant owner gets any real benefit.
Oh yes you would “tip” 20% if they just raised the price of the beer 20% and gave that to your server, it’s functionally the same but instead of being up to you it is forced, and it’s not called a tip anymore, but it’s still there.
And in the current system the server definitely benefits more from being tipped than being stiffed and working your table for free, the benefit is called “being able to afford rent this month,” either tip or boycott the whole restaurant, the owner doesn’t give a shit if you tip. If you manage to change the entire system then great but as it stands the only one you’re hurting by supporting the business and not tipping is the server.
If it is up to the customer, why they make it a big deal when the customer won’t pay the tip?
If the value is the tip is mandatory, then raise the price by including it.
All the tips do is subsidizing the restaurant owner, because they allow them to pay less.
Because when the customer doesn’t tip, it hurts the server who is already likely barely scraping by. It’s not a big deal if you’re a customer that doesn’t care about the worker, or if you’re the owner of the restaurant, however.
Sure, but until they do, don’t support exploitative businesses, or if you do, at least take care of the worker being exploited instead of doubling down on it and making it worse for them.
The tips aren’t only subsidizing the restaurant owner, they’re also what makes sure your server can eat and afford rent, until that changes not tipping only hurts the worker.
I don’t think this is true.
What isn’t true?
WTF?! TAX ist not included in the price either?!?!?!? That is fucking insane!
Nope. At least not in most states, it varies. How fun is that?
At least you’re complaining about it too though, the consistency is refreshing instead of these people who only care about the tips for some reason.
It doesn’t matter that it varies per state.
The shop inside a state doesn’t move, so their taxes stay exactly the same.
And tipping is bullshit too. Because it comes with a lot of stigma when the server is dependent on it to survive. A standard 20% increase will put the pressure on the employer when they want a raise, instead of the customers.
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A) is already a good reason but the bigger one is that everyone is paid a living wage and this stops being the responsibility of the consumer (which I argue it isn’t already and shouldn’t be). And this happens regardless of their age, looks, skin colour, size of tits, luck in their schedule, or which part of the restaurant they work in.
Tax not being included is also insane. We’re not complaining about that because if we were to complain about everything retarded about the US there wouldn’t be enough space in this forum. You guys are getting screwed and played. Focus on that instead of insulting people who refuse to take part in it. It tip is so mandatory that you will insult whoever doesn’t tip then put it in the price. Simple as
Sure, and I suppose that means under the current system you do tip? If the tip becoming compulsory is good in your opinion, are you giving it freely now or do you have to be forced to do the right thing?
I don’t disagree that it should change, but it hasn’t, and until it does you only hurt the worker you claim to support by not tipping.
At least you’re consistent RE: tax. Some people only seem to hate that paying for their service isn’t included but the government? That’s fine. Wonder why, couldn’t have anything to do with it being easier to fuck over further an already exploited worker, I’m sure.
I tend to avoid travelling to the US
When I’m there I tip in some places (where there’s actual service involved for example. I’m not tipping anyone for literally picking something or a shelf, scanning it and handing it off to me on a counter) but definitely not 20%.
Regarding the tax it’s stupid but it might be less annoying to people because it’s not a choice. Paying the tax is not a problem. It exists for a good reason. What is a problem/stupid is that it’s hidden. That is not the case for tipping. And no I don’t want to further exploit or fuck workers. Quite the contrary. That’s why I advocate that it should be changed and that’s why if people don’t tip it might change.
If everyone stopped tipping tomorrow I guarantee you wages would change very quickly after. Yes it would hurt workers momentarily but its hints would improve after. Continuing to tip is just maintaining the status quo. You can keep waiting for things to change but they won’t as they haven’t for a long time. In fact it’s literally only getting worse with top % increasing.
Good. Stay home.
Good, but
Not great. Tbh if you can afford to travel internationally at all you’re doing so much better than every one of those servers. Even if your work is paying for it (and don’t act like they aren’t paying for your meals if they are sending you international, you could tip well on your boss’ dollar, like American business people do on their boss’ dollar when they come in).
Neither is tipping if you ask those that rely on tipping. Boss doesn’t give a shit, he’ll tell you it is optional. You want to side with the exploiter? That’s certainly a choice, hope you don’t think you’re a good person though.
Oh so you admit tipping isn’t “hidden” and you know you’re supposed to, interesting. Sounds like you can figure it out, why are you complaining? Of course increasing the prices 20% and funneling it to the workers is better for them, they wouldn’t complain, but by your own admission you don’t tip that much, you’d be paying more. If you’re so about the worker why don’t you tip well without it being compulsory?
In fact imo 20% isn’t enough, increase the prices 30% or even 40% and give the worker that at your expense. Howboutdat?
FTFY.
Yes, exactly.
Well…
It’s this. It’s misleading advertising. And this kind of misleading advertising is proven to get people to spend more money, which is exactly why restaurants do it.
Same thing with not including tax in the advertised price. It’s all about screwing over the customer. Nothing else.
EDIT: I’m sorry people are being so hard on you. I’m not here to insult you and downvote you for having an opinion I dislike, lol
You’re cool lmao, those others are selfish pricks without a real argument who want a discount. They’re one step off from the people who make fake complaints to get free food but for some reason don’t want to return the “mistake” (it wasn’t a mistake, they want free food, they think I can’t remember 30 whole minutes ago but turns out I’m not a goldfish). You actually had something to add, not only is that “fine” but I like it!
Now, I do actually agree with you, but also functionally everyone here knows “burger $9.99” includes neither tax nor tip, so it is actually $9.99+10%tax+20%tip.
I’m not saying I’d be mad if we changed the menus to reflect those additional charges, but as it stands we don’t and as evidenced by this thread, whether the world agrees or not they know that is the custom. As such claims of false advertising are tenuous at best, you knew going in, and we know you knew, being a gaijin/n’wah is no excuse (at least after let’s say two days and two purchases).
For instance, though I’ve never been I know tipping is seen as rude in Japan, as such if I ever did get to visit (too poor, and that’s another thing if you can afford to travel like that you’re doing better than EVERY server so help them out like you would the homeless, they’re close enough to homeless as is), I wouldn’t be attempting to shove my American custom of tipping the workers onto them. Literally “same but reverse” here.
You’re right, it is in a sense “false advertising,” but still there’s not really a functional difference since everyone knows (or once they learn upon their first purchase if they didn’t, I suppose).
Idk how EU countries handle sales tax though, is it actually included on the sticker price like they do in New Hampshire, or should they be more used to this concept than they are letting on?
Yeah, what I’m saying is that I don’t want to be nickle and dimed, because it makes me feel like a victim of deceptive marketing.
No matter how strongly you know that your $9.99 burger is actually $14.00 (or more because tipping on the machine is often calculated after tax), psychological studies show that $9.99 tends to subconsciously mean “under $10” to people…and to services like Google Maps.
We’ve created this culture that it’s okay to subconsciously deceive the customer to extract an extra $0.01 (or $1.00) out of every purchase…and an extra 10%…and an extra 20% if it’s at a restaurant.
People who set a price limit for themselves of $20 will gladly go into a restaurant and buy something that’s $19.99 and feel like they’ve stayed within their budget.
This is the problem. I don’t like living somewhere where “buy a meal for under $10!” means I need to spend at least $15.
Yeah, not in the US. Here if it says $19.99 for anything anywhere you know that’s not including tax, because that is how it works here.
We can talk about how it should be all day and we likely agree, the difference is that you refuse to recognize what is, and think hurting the worker by not tipping but making them serve you for free (instead of boycotting exploitative businesses entirely) is the answer.
Just don’t go. That’s it, it’s that simple.
You’ve got the wrong person. I tip, and probably too much.
I don’t want tipping to end because I expect to pay less. I want it to end because it’s inherently deceptive to the customer. As is tax not being included in the sticker price.
Sorry, either that was for one of the other 40 of you or it was meant to be the royal “you,” depending. And I’m not going back to figure out which.
But that’s good that you do (if you go places that require it).
Sure, I’m all for it, my arguments are varied about the 40 of you but the jist is as follows:
(For context in this one I definitely mean the royal “you,” not the “you” you. “You” you said you do tip lol.)
Lmao that’s not at all the problem and you’re here in bad faith if you act like you believe that it is. I just want servers to be paid a fair wage (minimum wage at the very least but the problems with minimum wage are an entirely different conversation) and not be expected to pay a multimillion dollar company’s employees for them
Sure, we both agree on what should be.
And we both know what is.
As it is, do you tip at restaurants where the servers rely on it? Do you stiff the worker? Do you not go at all?
Why would I want to keep a horrific system in place?
I don’t tip, so the employees can complain to their employer until they change it.
Not how it works, the employer goes “sucks don’t it?” And then when you get fed up enough to leave they hire another person who is about a week away from homelessness to continue the cycle. Your naivety is astounding.
It’s called VAT and its included in the price. Companies get taxed on category specific things and upcharge the base. We see what we pay here. In fact there are laws about price as well, if the price at the till differs from the shown price on the pricecard/tag they must sell it at the price shown or risk fines
Beware though, buy it first then go service desk for refunds
If you complain in store or at the register they run out and fix the tag
Good to know, thanks!
Still curious why servers deserve the ire for the practices of their boss and government, and why they should be the only ones hurt in the protest of these practices.
Why not bitch at the restaurant owners and government making the decisions, rather than making the servers being victimized and exploited by that system take the brunt of the effects? Why are all the complaints about tips, not tax, even though that is the exact same and on the exact same receipt?
It still seems a might selfish to me to make the poorest worker in the chain who made 0% of these decisions the bad guy, still go to the restaurant he works at and make him work for you for free against his will, not tip him, and get mad about his boss being a dick as if it is his fault at all, all because adding 20% yourself is hard. What’s next, you gonna blame your server for the food prices and state sales tax too? Gonna get mad at your bartender because the bar doesn’t stock blue curacao? It makes no sense, get mad at the guy making the decisions and stop supporting him, otherwise you’re just a dick using fake moral superiority for a 20% discount.
And still, if I go to your country it is my responsibility to learn and respect your local customs, example still Japan where tipping is rude, there’s no difference here beyond it being the opposite direction.
It’s not ire, it’s enforcing logic
I think a little cultural awakening is happening thanks to the world Cup
I loved the answer to a question posed somewhere about the amount of Dutch people in the streets of Houston, someone wondered how they all got here on such short notice
The winning comment on that post was another example of why Americans are ill equipped to even begin to grow an inkling of understanding (note the lack of ire here)
Europeans have 5 weeks of holiday, their arrivals were more spread out
… Waking up yet?
Or should they have all come at once in order to not disturb the fragile American ecosystem as well
If by cultural awakening you mean “servers are going to hate you for not tipping” then congratulations, because that’s all you’re gonna get by supporting the exploitative business. It’s like yelling at an Amazon worker they work for a bad company when they just need to feed their family all while still supporting Amazon monetarily by using their services, you’re not helping as much as you think. Somehow everyone gets this and many boycott Amazon but instead of inconveniencing yourself for this one you just get mad at the lowest person on the totem pole and still support it.
Great for the Dutch. Those servers you’re stiffing don’t get any vacation and are only given enough hours to keep them a part time employee specifically so they don’t get benefits, and you feel good about stiffing them because of your moral high ground? Ooooook.
Not moral high ground
Let me ask you this: is tipping obligatory?
What blaim is on these customers, exactly?
Depends on who you ask.
If you ask the boss? No.
If you ask the employee? Yes.
I wonder why that discrepancy exists…
The blame is on the customer for supporting exploitative businesses with their money, doubly so if they also don’t tip.
This of course doesn’t absolve the boss, but fact of the matter is he doesn’t care if the worker gets tipped, he gets his when you pay the menu price, and if you don’t tip fuck the both of you, if you do then fuck my boss but you’re cool.
It’s like supporting Amazon monetarily and also railing against their unfair treatment of workers, either stop buying from Amazon or you don’t actually care.
This is dumb.
No u.
If you’d like to elaborate, I can too. For now that’s all the response you get.
Your original rebuttal is dumb. Raise the prices, pay employees, eliminate tipping.
Ok, you raise the price from $9.99 to $11.98 and no tips.
Cool. And?
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
And does this apply to sales tax, or does it only apply for tips? Why are you not also complaining that sales tax (dependant on state but for convo’s sake lets say 10%) isn’t included on the menu price as well? The government can require math but not your server? Seems arbitrary imo.
The heart of the matter is that the only one screwed by not tipping is the poor server, the boss gets his from the menu price so you’re still helping perpetuate the system if you patronize those establishments regardless of tipping or not, but really, other than making you pull out your phone calc what is the physical difference between paying “$9.99+20%” and “$11.98,” if not “just doing a little basic math?”
Jesus man, your argument is that employers should be allowed to not fairly compensate their employees. Just shut the fuck up.
Well no, my argument is that whether the 20% is included in the bill or you have to do math you’re still paying the same price so what is the actual functional difference besides
A) making you do math
And
B) giving you the choice to be a prick for a 20% discount at the worker’s expense.
I’ve so far not heard any other differences but I have heard a lot of excuses for not ponying up that supposedly fine 20%.
And still nobody has answered why 10% for taxes not included is fine but 20% for tip not included is over the line.
It’s sounding like you’re all a bunch of selfish smegheads to me, honestly.
If you’re a prick for not tipping and it’s a discount rather than a bonus, then it’s absolutely an issue of the employer exploiting labor.
State sales tax would ideally be factored into the listed price, but regardless, it’s mandatory and baked into the bill. I don’t need to play games deciding if, when and how much to add on, which tipping requests have become.
Dine in? Sure, 20%. Get one beer from the bar? A burrito for take out?
You’re calling people selfish when there was no mention of not tipping, just that it’s a problematic system.
Sure it is, nobody is arguing that. But that is how it works currently, and not tipping won’t change that, it only hurts the employee and adds to their exploitation.
It is actually in the listed price in some states, but not in others. That oughta add to the confusion for ya lol. But then this brings up another question, many restaurants automatically add 20% to tables of 6+, so by your logic on taxes you’d prefer they just raise the menu price 20% but
So that’d be fine right? (Which iirc that’s what many of the restaurants actually are doing).
One beer from the bar I’ll just give them $1. If I can afford to give it to a homeless dude for literally no reason I don’t mind giving it to a bartender for pouring a draft, fuck math here’s a buck, it’s more than 20% but it is one dollar who cares.
“A burrito for take-out” where are you? Fast food? No tip. Local family owned restaurant? Probably not necessary but I’ll drop a few in the jar if I can, I love my local guys the food is just so fucking good.
Fair enough, if they don’t tip* then they’re selfish. I only worked in foodservice for about 13yr and in that time I never had a good tipper complain about tipping, so something tells me I’m probably right, but could be that everyone here is unlike all the complainers that came before them.
Tbh I’m sure one or two of them here do still tip, but I’m betting I’m right on average.
That customers are guaranteed to pay that money. Isn’t that obvious?
I guess it’s hard to understand if one has lived in the US all their life. Otherwise, including service charges in the bill is normal business practice anywhere else in the world.
And the fact that the OP is precisely about how foreigners don’t tip and how that is a issue for US service employees, is proof that the US as a whole should get rid of tipping and just increase prices.
What functionally changed FOR YOU, the customer? As I said the employee sees a change, people can no longer stiff them, great.
But aside from math and the ability to choose to be an asshole, what changes for the customer?
Sure, change the system. But as it stands now, this is the system, and unless you’re able to time machine back to before the world cup visitors got here in time to change it, then this is the system you’re visiting and you need to adapt. Just as I would need to adapt to your culture if I went wherever you live or I’d be the asshole, same goes here.
I find extremely amusing that if I were to choose not to partake of a custom that even you find controversial, I would be the asshole here.
The article says that some businesses are adding a 20% service surcharge. It seems to me that “the system” could very well be fixed, they just chose not to until they were forced to do so.
You are welcome, I guess.
Some people here are complaining about that as well, they say it has to be on the menu price, some “would rather it be on the menu price, but that is better.”
If I had my guess it’s because “The EU™” doesn’t have an entirely homogenous opinion on tipping themselves, closer in opinion to each other though they may be. Point is though some consider that surcharge “not fixed.”
I’m also wondering if they’re only adding the surcharge for Euros which would be so funny. In any case the second you guys leave that goes back to normal, you’ve “fixed” nothing.