Ok, you raise the price from $9.99 to $11.98 and no tips.
Cool. And?
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
And does this apply to sales tax, or does it only apply for tips? Why are you not also complaining that sales tax (dependant on state but for convo’s sake lets say 10%) isn’t included on the menu price as well? The government can require math but not your server? Seems arbitrary imo.
The heart of the matter is that the only one screwed by not tipping is the poor server, the boss gets his from the menu price so you’re still helping perpetuate the system if you patronize those establishments regardless of tipping or not, but really, other than making you pull out your phone calc what is the physical difference between paying “$9.99+20%” and “$11.98,” if not “just doing a little basic math?”
Well no, my argument is that whether the 20% is included in the bill or you have to do math you’re still paying the same price so what is the actual functional difference besides
A) making you do math
And
B) giving you the choice to be a prick for a 20% discount at the worker’s expense.
I’ve so far not heard any other differences but I have heard a lot of excuses for not ponying up that supposedly fine 20%.
And still nobody has answered why 10% for taxes not included is fine but 20% for tip not included is over the line.
It’s sounding like you’re all a bunch of selfish smegheads to me, honestly.
If you’re a prick for not tipping and it’s a discount rather than a bonus, then it’s absolutely an issue of the employer exploiting labor.
State sales tax would ideally be factored into the listed price, but regardless, it’s mandatory and baked into the bill. I don’t need to play games deciding if, when and how much to add on, which tipping requests have become.
Dine in? Sure, 20%. Get one beer from the bar? A burrito for take out?
You’re calling people selfish when there was no mention of not tipping, just that it’s a problematic system.
Sure it is, nobody is arguing that. But that is how it works currently, and not tipping won’t change that, it only hurts the employee and adds to their exploitation.
It is actually in the listed price in some states, but not in others. That oughta add to the confusion for ya lol. But then this brings up another question, many restaurants automatically add 20% to tables of 6+, so by your logic on taxes you’d prefer they just raise the menu price 20% but
it’s mandatory and baked into the bill. You don’t need to play games deciding if, when and how much to add on
So that’d be fine right? (Which iirc that’s what many of the restaurants actually are doing).
One beer from the bar I’ll just give them $1. If I can afford to give it to a homeless dude for literally no reason I don’t mind giving it to a bartender for pouring a draft, fuck math here’s a buck, it’s more than 20% but it is one dollar who cares.
“A burrito for take-out” where are you? Fast food? No tip. Local family owned restaurant? Probably not necessary but I’ll drop a few in the jar if I can, I love my local guys the food is just so fucking good.
Fair enough, if they don’t tip* then they’re selfish. I only worked in foodservice for about 13yr and in that time I never had a good tipper complain about tipping, so something tells me I’m probably right, but could be that everyone here is unlike all the complainers that came before them.
Tbh I’m sure one or two of them here do still tip, but I’m betting I’m right on average.
I worked most positions in the industry over seven years. I’m not concerned about how I tip and I can also think it is a dog shit system.
When you agree saying “sure it is, nobody is arguing that,” but you started with “what really is the functional difference here? …is it just hatred of math?” That’s dissonant.
So by that you mean you do tip, or that you don’t care that you don’t tip? Nice purposely vague statement but I’d like clarification.
What is the functional difference for the customer? Sure for the worker it means you can no longer stiff them, as I said repeatedly, but for YOU THE CUSTOMER, what is the difference other than doing math?
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
That customers are guaranteed to pay that money. Isn’t that obvious?
I guess it’s hard to understand if one has lived in the US all their life. Otherwise, including service charges in the bill is normal business practice anywhere else in the world.
And the fact that the OP is precisely about how foreigners don’t tip and how that is a issue for US service employees, is proof that the US as a whole should get rid of tipping and just increase prices.
What functionally changed FOR YOU, the customer? As I said the employee sees a change, people can no longer stiff them, great.
But aside from math and the ability to choose to be an asshole, what changes for the customer?
Sure, change the system. But as it stands now, this is the system, and unless you’re able to time machine back to before the world cup visitors got here in time to change it, then this is the system you’re visiting and you need to adapt. Just as I would need to adapt to your culture if I went wherever you live or I’d be the asshole, same goes here.
Sure, change the system. But as it stands now, this is the system, and unless you’re able to time machine back to before the world cup visitors got here in time to change it, then this is the system you’re visiting and you need to adapt. Just as I would need to adapt to your culture if I went wherever you live or I’d be the asshole, same goes here.
I find extremely amusing that if I were to choose not to partake of a custom that even you find controversial, I would be the asshole here.
The article says that some businesses are adding a 20% service surcharge. It seems to me that “the system” could very well be fixed, they just chose not to until they were forced to do so.
Some people here are complaining about that as well, they say it has to be on the menu price, some “would rather it be on the menu price, but that is better.”
If I had my guess it’s because “The EU™” doesn’t have an entirely homogenous opinion on tipping themselves, closer in opinion to each other though they may be. Point is though some consider that surcharge “not fixed.”
I’m also wondering if they’re only adding the surcharge for Euros which would be so funny. In any case the second you guys leave that goes back to normal, you’ve “fixed” nothing.
In any case the second you guys leave that goes back to normal, you’ve “fixed” nothing.
If you guys decide to go back to your savage ways, sure.
The service industry is dying in the US anyway. It’s pretty much all chains serving the same frozen food bought from a handful of suppliers. Americans eat out less than ever, and it’s not only because tipping, although you lot sure love to complain about it while doing nothing to fix it.
So if you would like to continue to alienate the few captive customers that the country still has, i.e. tourists, please, by all means, do it.
The worker decides nothing. They quit and the boss hires another ex convict with a drug problem, if they get lucky they’ll break out but more likely the quitter will end up at another restaurant hoping there’s no Europeans. Your idealism is commendable, but naïve.
Though you’re not entirely wrong, covid killed off a lot of small restaurants who couldn’t afford to stay open and were pretty much the last bastion of “local businesses” in the country. Pretty sad imo, I’ve long been a “shop local” proponent myself. Though youshould be happy about that because those chains mostly offer “a living wage” (debatable, especially in this economy, but they don’t rely on tips). So there you go, go eat there instead of the relatively few local spots that did survive but rely on tips, why do you have to go to the tipping spots if you’re so against them? Have a backbone and sacrifice for your ideals.
Yes, by all means, stay out of the place if you can’t respect how it works and have to shit on the poor worker to feel morally superior, like an absolute smeghead.
Yes, by all means, stay out of the place if you can’t respect how it works and have to shit on the poor worker to feel morally superior, like an absolute smeghead.
No worries about this, I will.
I hope one day you understand that your arguments could be used to justify any kind of ongoing labor abuse. But anyway, when the industry finally dies in the US, I won’t be sad about it.
Ok, you raise the price from $9.99 to $11.98 and no tips.
Cool. And?
What has functionally changed other than you having to do math?
And does this apply to sales tax, or does it only apply for tips? Why are you not also complaining that sales tax (dependant on state but for convo’s sake lets say 10%) isn’t included on the menu price as well? The government can require math but not your server? Seems arbitrary imo.
The heart of the matter is that the only one screwed by not tipping is the poor server, the boss gets his from the menu price so you’re still helping perpetuate the system if you patronize those establishments regardless of tipping or not, but really, other than making you pull out your phone calc what is the physical difference between paying “$9.99+20%” and “$11.98,” if not “just doing a little basic math?”
Jesus man, your argument is that employers should be allowed to not fairly compensate their employees. Just shut the fuck up.
Well no, my argument is that whether the 20% is included in the bill or you have to do math you’re still paying the same price so what is the actual functional difference besides
A) making you do math
And
B) giving you the choice to be a prick for a 20% discount at the worker’s expense.
I’ve so far not heard any other differences but I have heard a lot of excuses for not ponying up that supposedly fine 20%.
And still nobody has answered why 10% for taxes not included is fine but 20% for tip not included is over the line.
It’s sounding like you’re all a bunch of selfish smegheads to me, honestly.
If you’re a prick for not tipping and it’s a discount rather than a bonus, then it’s absolutely an issue of the employer exploiting labor.
State sales tax would ideally be factored into the listed price, but regardless, it’s mandatory and baked into the bill. I don’t need to play games deciding if, when and how much to add on, which tipping requests have become.
Dine in? Sure, 20%. Get one beer from the bar? A burrito for take out?
You’re calling people selfish when there was no mention of not tipping, just that it’s a problematic system.
Sure it is, nobody is arguing that. But that is how it works currently, and not tipping won’t change that, it only hurts the employee and adds to their exploitation.
It is actually in the listed price in some states, but not in others. That oughta add to the confusion for ya lol. But then this brings up another question, many restaurants automatically add 20% to tables of 6+, so by your logic on taxes you’d prefer they just raise the menu price 20% but
So that’d be fine right? (Which iirc that’s what many of the restaurants actually are doing).
One beer from the bar I’ll just give them $1. If I can afford to give it to a homeless dude for literally no reason I don’t mind giving it to a bartender for pouring a draft, fuck math here’s a buck, it’s more than 20% but it is one dollar who cares.
“A burrito for take-out” where are you? Fast food? No tip. Local family owned restaurant? Probably not necessary but I’ll drop a few in the jar if I can, I love my local guys the food is just so fucking good.
Fair enough, if they don’t tip* then they’re selfish. I only worked in foodservice for about 13yr and in that time I never had a good tipper complain about tipping, so something tells me I’m probably right, but could be that everyone here is unlike all the complainers that came before them.
Tbh I’m sure one or two of them here do still tip, but I’m betting I’m right on average.
I worked most positions in the industry over seven years. I’m not concerned about how I tip and I can also think it is a dog shit system.
When you agree saying “sure it is, nobody is arguing that,” but you started with “what really is the functional difference here? …is it just hatred of math?” That’s dissonant.
So by that you mean you do tip, or that you don’t care that you don’t tip? Nice purposely vague statement but I’d like clarification.
What is the functional difference for the customer? Sure for the worker it means you can no longer stiff them, as I said repeatedly, but for YOU THE CUSTOMER, what is the difference other than doing math?
That customers are guaranteed to pay that money. Isn’t that obvious?
I guess it’s hard to understand if one has lived in the US all their life. Otherwise, including service charges in the bill is normal business practice anywhere else in the world.
And the fact that the OP is precisely about how foreigners don’t tip and how that is a issue for US service employees, is proof that the US as a whole should get rid of tipping and just increase prices.
What functionally changed FOR YOU, the customer? As I said the employee sees a change, people can no longer stiff them, great.
But aside from math and the ability to choose to be an asshole, what changes for the customer?
Sure, change the system. But as it stands now, this is the system, and unless you’re able to time machine back to before the world cup visitors got here in time to change it, then this is the system you’re visiting and you need to adapt. Just as I would need to adapt to your culture if I went wherever you live or I’d be the asshole, same goes here.
I find extremely amusing that if I were to choose not to partake of a custom that even you find controversial, I would be the asshole here.
The article says that some businesses are adding a 20% service surcharge. It seems to me that “the system” could very well be fixed, they just chose not to until they were forced to do so.
You are welcome, I guess.
Some people here are complaining about that as well, they say it has to be on the menu price, some “would rather it be on the menu price, but that is better.”
If I had my guess it’s because “The EU™” doesn’t have an entirely homogenous opinion on tipping themselves, closer in opinion to each other though they may be. Point is though some consider that surcharge “not fixed.”
I’m also wondering if they’re only adding the surcharge for Euros which would be so funny. In any case the second you guys leave that goes back to normal, you’ve “fixed” nothing.
If you guys decide to go back to your savage ways, sure.
The service industry is dying in the US anyway. It’s pretty much all chains serving the same frozen food bought from a handful of suppliers. Americans eat out less than ever, and it’s not only because tipping, although you lot sure love to complain about it while doing nothing to fix it.
So if you would like to continue to alienate the few captive customers that the country still has, i.e. tourists, please, by all means, do it.
The worker decides nothing. They quit and the boss hires another ex convict with a drug problem, if they get lucky they’ll break out but more likely the quitter will end up at another restaurant hoping there’s no Europeans. Your idealism is commendable, but naïve.
Though you’re not entirely wrong, covid killed off a lot of small restaurants who couldn’t afford to stay open and were pretty much the last bastion of “local businesses” in the country. Pretty sad imo, I’ve long been a “shop local” proponent myself. Though you should be happy about that because those chains mostly offer “a living wage” (debatable, especially in this economy, but they don’t rely on tips). So there you go, go eat there instead of the relatively few local spots that did survive but rely on tips, why do you have to go to the tipping spots if you’re so against them? Have a backbone and sacrifice for your ideals.
Yes, by all means, stay out of the place if you can’t respect how it works and have to shit on the poor worker to feel morally superior, like an absolute smeghead.
No worries about this, I will.
I hope one day you understand that your arguments could be used to justify any kind of ongoing labor abuse. But anyway, when the industry finally dies in the US, I won’t be sad about it.