Watched it, my takes: Trump is definitly the lets make an offer he can’t refuse type of negociator. I am thinking that the last week’s visits have been hard on their ego. I suspect there is an agreement between european leaders to not let them get away with lies and bullshit when in person, even in the oval office. And it seems to be working, Vance respect comment make them look real fricking weak.
The respect comment took me back to his donut comments. The couchfucker is a charisma void.
Starmer’s visit was pointless Zelensky’s visit was pointless
stop trying to appeal to the better nature of monsters.
Close the book on US/EU relations, NATO is dead. America is controlled by the Russian Mafia now.
Europe, prepare for war. America, prepare for the dominion of Fasicsm, and civil war
Not necessarily monsters (actually yeah they are), but he has a 40 year history of being compromised and owned by Soviet and Russian oligarchs. I’m reading “American Kompromat” now and it couldn’t be clearer. It’s not even hidden or anything. The Russians really just, won the Cold War. They did it, they toppled the US. Good job for them.
The reasons for which the US was able to turn fascist are all homegrown. We don’t need to resort to blaming foreigners for the rise of fascism - which is the only logical conclusion to a country that was founded on genocide and colonialism under the sole guidance of white slavers. This is peak American exceptionalism.
Social safety nets, wages, childcare, healthcare, mental health, working hours, etc… have all been crumbling for some time now. The fact that our adversaries picked up on this and exploited it by no means absolves Americans of their turn towards fascism.
If, at the end of these 4 years when democracy has been truly and completely demolished, the only lesson you’ve learned is “damn russian spies destroyed america!” You haven’t learned your lesson, and you’re honestly spitting in the face of all the victims of US policy both domestic and abroad.
The Russian Mafia won the war,
the nation itself is fucked. regardless of what happens. they’ve been doomed for a while.
If your definition of the Russian Mafia includes, the Kremlin, then yes. Putin and co are absolutely gangster scum that work hand in hand with the actual mafia and international criminal organizations. Sure the actual people of Russia are fucked (just as with any country of a dictator).
How is NATO dead, just because the US is no longer reliable the rest of the countries can still respond
NATO was a tool of American influence. Just as the Warsaw pact was a tool of Russian influence.
The trans-atlantic partnership is over. NATO is obsolete, a successor is needed. America has checked out,
I wasn’t convinced at first that NATO is dead on Trump’s first term. But here we are and it is a long time coming.
Some analysts think that the unipolar world is over, and that we’re heading into a multipolar world again but dominated by regional blocs. The EU is definitely there, and sometime later the African Union will become more cohesive and globally influential. But I don’t see Latin America having as strong regional grouping as the EU. In Asia, we can forget it because Asians tend to be insular. There is ASEAN but they do not have the same solidarity as the EU.
Nato is not dead just because the US leaves it. The EU wasn’t dead either after the UK left.
the US and Hungary have no reason to officially leave NATO because they can sabotage it from within and use it to blackmail and steer Europe into the position they want, being puppets of Russia and US.
the last thing America wants is a detatched Europe that isnt allied with them, they see independent Europe as a hostile entity, they are only interested in Europe being vassal states.
For one why limit it to the North Atlantic? Japan, South Korea, and Australia should get in on the action too. And France and the UK can help them all get nukes (yes I mean that seriously - US and Russia being the only large nuclear powers is a disaster). Now would be a great time for the stable democracies (not the US) to create a new alliance.
Zelensky is the strongest man in the world to be able to hold himself back from attacking these ass holes.
Imagine being Zelensky and having to fly some some rando country to beg for help from a Nazi asshole to end the invasion from another Nazi asshole. And if you were to die, one of the two assholes would win?
Zelensky, if you need my help personally, just ask. I have a wheelbarrow so we can carry your balls. Trump would love it if his genitalia could weigh down a party balloon.
I mean I understand that Zelensky is desperate and doing whatever is necessary to ensure the fair survival of his country.
But the UK getting in line to kiss his dihheriacious ass, only to get humiliated by this fucking high school bully? Have some spine you fucking cowards. But I guess they meet in the common factor of enabling genocide for Zionists so they never will.
fuck you america for voting for this fascist scumbag. nobody should trust you again.
Almost nobody using Lemmy voted for him.
They basically handed one of the strongest countries in the world to a very typical college bully and his lackies.
Yeah.
Yeah…
Most of us want the shithead gone just as bad as you do, but too many dumbshits decided they’d rather not stop him because the alternative wasn’t perfect. I hate it here.
Most? He already was president and over 50% voted that guy into office again? How are most people against him?
He didn’t get 50% of the vote.
He won be cause either 6 million people didn’t vote or, to quote Trump, “[Elon] knows those computers better than anybody. All those computers. Those vote-counting computers. And we ended up winning Pennsylvania like in a landslide.”
A surprisingly large number of people don’t vote. I refuse to believe that anything approaching half of voting-age Americans support this. Unfortunately, here we are.
Everyone who didn’t vote supports this.
If as many people who turned up to vote would turn up to protest, things would change. Alas, liberals who think filling out the ballot is enough democracy for 4 years are not friends of democracy.
And even more didn’t vote in 2024 than 2020- and most of those who didn’t vote this time would have otherwise voted against Trump. 50% of US votes is far far less than 50% of people eligible to vote in the US.
50% of the people that voted in the last election voted for him. Some people didn’t vote, so about 33% of those that could vote voted for him. Since the election, his approval ratings dropped about 15-20%, so about 25% of those able to vote still support him.
Further, it’s 50% of the people in the swing states that really decide things. I’m sure most New Yorkers and Californians that didn’t vote did so because they knew their state would go blue regardless.
Yep. The rule of thumb is that if you were in a swing state, your vote counted for about 5-6 votes because of the way the electoral college works.
"They didn’t know"TM
It’s time to acknowledge the majority is fascist and wants it. There isn’t some silent majority waiting on the sidelines . Trump is who America is and who it aspires to be.
I also hate it here.
No, most of you either directly voted for him or didn’t care if he won.
Definitely not most.
most of you decided voting was too much of hassle
As an American. Agreed
Let’s remember that there good people there too. Let’s remember that these scumbags, whichever country they run, rely on our sweat, tears and blood to move forward with their decisions. While not all of us are good, obviously, I want to believe that many Americans were tricked by media to think Trump was a valid choice. What we need to understand it’s that this is a us people versus them rulers. If only we would understand this together and stop fighting each other…
I mean, that counts for Russia as well, but until recently you couldn’t say anything like this without getting attacked
rely on our sweat, tears and blood to move forward with their decisions
Agreed, so stop giving it to them. When I see Americans bring the country to a screeching halt through protest, disobedience, and strikes I will believe in the good people there.
“All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.”
Ah it’s time for Poland to raise a big stink about the next errant missile and invoke article 5 as the zerg rush red square
You do realize that article 5 does not mean that other countries have to join the war, right? They can choose to or they can choose not to. Even if they choose to get involved, it can be in form of economic support. And even if they choose to declare war, it can be in form of loud words. So I expect Poland would be on it’s own.
NATO is dead for all practical purposes. You think this trump asswipe is going to lift a finger if anything more serious happens in Europe?
Does anyone else have the feeling that Ukraine is safer with no deal?
This guy does (he was there too, sitting next to vance, btw)
A man who, by the way, was fully supported by every single democratic senator.
He was supposed to be the “adult” in the room. They all fear Trump… For some reason, I don’t get it.
Any deal with Trump is no deal at all. He’s the kind of guy that, if you give an inch, starts waving his hands around about how you stole 16 inches from him, and how you must be thrown in a hole somewhere.
Granting him anything is telling him that you are weak and ripe to be exploited.
Just like with any dictator deals are worthless. Putin broke the ceasefire and Trump is breaking trade deals.
Yeah, and the EU should immediately step up, and triplicate support for Ukraine.
Triple*
We (Europe) already did most of the heavy lifting for Ukraine. The US mostly gave old stockpiles of weapons that they would’ve needed to destroy anyway. We are the ones actually paying cash to keep them afloat.
The problem is, in the post-WW2 order, our defense and our defense industry was made dependent on the USA by design. And even up until last November, Europe didn’t want to challenge this arrangement and just went full steam ahead with this arrangement, ordering US made weapons. I think Europe was in denial that Biden could lose or that NATO could ever end.
Only France, and to a limited extent, Sweden and Turkey, have independent defense industries.
In the future, we will have it again. And Ukraine will actually be a key player.
But in the short term, there is no magical button to press that can produce the arms.
Undoing decades of integration isn’t going to be easy.
You just made all of the points that I was thinking about.
Yes. USA already knows what its going to do. A hypothetical trade agreement isn’t going to change the decision, so Ukraine should make exactly zero concessions in pursuit of influencing a decision which has already been made.
Exactly, Trump already decided he was going to surrender. Zelensky knew he wasn’t going to get anything, but it was worth a shot I guess
They’re safer if they develop nuclear weapons on their own.
Libya and Ukraine convey the same warning to non NATO states. Have nukes or perish.
I’d suspect they’re safer with a deal… but they absolutely shouldn’t honor that deal.
They’re safer with a deal with guarantees, but Trump doesn’t want to give any, only take the profit. Otherwise it’s a choice between soldiers dying and soldiers dying with profit sharing.
All to play for . Join EU. Agree no NATO Putin fucks off.
America frozen.
Not sure how the US would react. Probably war.
They can sign a 50 year deal and stop payment 10 years from now, hopefully thing change for better then.
Why did people vote for the Orange one? How.can you be so stupid?
Congrats America, we’re the bad guys now.
A foreign democracy is sending an entire generation of their male populace into the afterlife to prevent Russia from expanding their borders and influence, which is bad for everyone including America, and our dumbfuck “leader” is trying to fleece them for everything he can in exchange for helping them with what amounts to chump change.
Such an embarrassing time to be an American. We’re transitioning into a much more dangerous world.
Did Trump and Vance think this embarrassing display made them look the better of the leaders?
Because it really didn’t.
Yea, looks like they used their leverage over Zelensky to lure him into a trap that turned out to be a verbal-WWE media stunt…
…turns out Zelensky is more articulate and mature than both of them combined…
And he a comedian, working in his second language .
I suppose it might go down well with some of his base who love the “macho” shit, but the rest of the world are looking on with disgust.
In some ways, this has probably worked out well for Ukraine, as it might focus minds in Europe. Though I do wish Zelenskyy had pointed out the $350bn in aid lie that Trump keeps spouting.
Though I do wish Zelenskyy had pointed out the $350bn in aid lie that Trump keeps spouting.
He would need to have been able to get a word in edgeways to do that. What should happen is that media reporting on it should point out that it’s a lie but most media organizations seem too busy gargling Trump’s balls these days for that.
Zelensky knows who he is dealing with: Putin.
Unfortunately to their cult it did. Such a strong and powerful man. They are literally coming down from an orgasmic high from what they witnessed.
They only act this way because of their followers and because they are in the US. They wouldn’t pull this shit in any other country.
I’m afraid MAGA does
I watched some of the transmission and all I can say is my respect to Zelensky grew tenfold with that exchange alone.
Having to interact with these two clowns and still keeping his cool (as much as he was able to) requires A LOT of patience and will. It was horrifyingly stupid in a train wreck kind of way.
Zelensky deserves every award there is for being able to keep his cool like that. I certainly wouldn’t have been able to.
Dude… I am saying this from the most unobjective place I can possibly manage. That was was of the most difficult and annoying things I’ve watched in a very long time. It honestly felt like watching a rational adult deal with his children complaining they can’t have a sleepover or something.
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast and B) zelensky actually remained remarkably calm.
Man what annoying people to talk with lol I’m trying so hard to see this from a different perspective but I can’t even fathom how that could be seen as anything other than rude and embarrassing.
“You haven’t even thanked us once” lmao
Man, don’t take a look at the conversations sub. They are all high fiving each other over this. For them it was a rush of masculinity and power live on TV. You’ve got folks saying that Vance never looked so good and how they want to name their first born over him.
I am shocked that A) the White House wanted that embarrassment broadcast
Trump thinks strength is measured by how many people you confront and bully and threaten. He is not smart enough to realize this isn’t how it looks to people outside his bubble of sycophants and MAGA dummies. Elon Musk clearly thinks the same way, and both Musk and Trump crave the respect they will never earn, so they double down on their idiot edgelord/bully methods. The White House media office will be headed by Trump sycophants, who will see this exchange through MAGA eyes. They see a strong man where everyone else sees a pathetic manchild.
Same here. I actively avoid watching Trump or his administration talk so seeing both him and Vance during this meeting was… exhausting to say the least. I can only imagine what was going through Zelensky’s head throughout the whole thing. His face sure said a lot.
It honestly felt like watching a rational adult deal with his children complaining they can’t have a sleepover or something.
Except the children’s behavior will also get a lot of people killed and possibly a whole nation enslaved.
Did i dreamed or did at some point he mentioned Hunter Biden’s dick? You wouldn’t believe a movie with such a plot.
Indeed. He’s in an awful situation and has no good options. With only Europe (both politically and militarily) it will be real hard for them. OTOH with a blackmailed ‘deal’ with orange they loose a big piece of resources without any guarantees not to loose the rest to Russia or to the orange in a deal extension. To get out of this situation without a major loss would be a miracle, but hey, I really hope they make it.
If we’re lucky this will be (another) kick for the European leaders to get serious about a possibility of US bailing out completely. Maybe. Hopefully. Please?
It was all a trap.
They just invited him over so they can try to bully him and attack his character with bullshit arguments in front of everyone so they can have that “tough guy” image for their moronic supporters. How fucking pathetic.
No one will want to go over to the US to negotiate anything now.
America is squarely in an age of decline now. Our allies will start moving on without us. We’ll start being left out of all sorts of deals/agreements. Our global power will decline. The future is going to another country. Probably China.
All because dumbfuck conservatives care more about owning the libs than voting responsibly.
I may have a bit of a rose-colored view of the US, or at least its potential to have its conscience pricked by the notion that tomorrow can be freer than today, but if we don’t care about that anymore, then whatever it was that made America a more palatable hegemon than the USSR or China is gone. The USA is just another transactional actor, and not even a particularly reliable one. At this point, Trump has literally threatened more individual souls with annexation than China has.
That doesn’t stop any toddler from saying they are disrespected at home… Are you saying he wants the numerous tariffs negotiations to fail?!?
I tend to agree with you 100%, yet the stock market hasn’t reacted. 🤷♂️
As an American I applaud Zelensky for not smacking the ever loving fuck out of those 2 bozos I wouldn’t have had the same restraint. You invite me to your house and tell me I should be thankful because you’re letting an aggressor fuck my country? Yea iight
I also would have slapped those 2. Fuck it.
Are you kidding, that was fucking legendary. I’ve never seen anything like that before in my entire life. In the Oval office Zelensky told Trump and Vance they were full of shit, bullies, and simping for Putin. Based Zelensky.
The guy as a reputation for having the hardest balls one can carry, of course he wasn’t going to surrender like that.
