So I assume just a minor fine and some angry words?
Knowing Finland’s governments, it won’t be even those. They’ll more likely take Google’s side and tell the population how it’s a price we must pay for being competitive, and how we need these foreign corporations raping Finnish nature to create jobs and shit. No European bougie gives a shit about the countries they lead or the populations they claim to represent.
Well, the current government is run by corporate puppets and right wing nutters that were willing to do anything just to be called ministers.
Not very hard to guess how this is gonna go.
Yup, that’s true. For me it seems that even the nominally leftist and ““socialist”” seem to be of like minds with the corporate stooges.
Shocking… You can’t vote in socialism. Unfortunately, people jerk the Nordic countries so hard they can’t see they’re run off imperialism, resource extraction, and the same awful capitalist system.
I’m not directing this at you BTW, I can assume you’re probably a socialist or communist based on your instance. It’s just sad to see libs continue to think that Europe is somehow this wonderland utopia. But it’s still run by the Epstein class, many of the families there of far older influence than in the Western hemisphere.
Old money, new money… the problem is capitalism, the answer is proletariat organizing. It’s true though, many people in Europe see the problems of unfettered capitalism in America, but somehow seem to fail to consider that it could, will and is happening here also.
“Petteri Orpo, said attracting investment was a ‘top priority’ and ‘the value of the data economy extends far beyond direct investment’” Bull. Shit. Unless they have a plan to tax the snot out of this DC they’ll get nothing but resource drain and a handful, maybe two handfuls, of jobs.
I think what happens is that governments look at the plans and their brains light up thinking it’s like an old-time factory. The AI company then shows how many people will be employed in construction and let’s the official go on and think that work will continue.
They do have that spreding fine system that scales to income. We can hope…
No that’s just for the poors and proles. The corporations will never face repercussions because the politicians are in their C-suite
Don’t the ai data centers run at a loss? A negative fine would be called subvention then…
/s (hopefully)
There’s a datacentre being planned in Skellefteå I think and this is exactly what’s being said. “It’ll bring 4000 jobs” like fucking what? Will they have 4000 people standing there caressing the circuits or something? Get fucking real. 🙃
Yeah, they’re building one in my home town atm. They talk a big talk how this shit is beneficial for everyone, how our electrical grid is “one of the most stable in Europe”, how this shit will bring more jobs. Lies, lies, more lies. That’s all the bougies know how to do. They just fucking lie.
Yeah. It’s the same here. They’re building it in the north because the electricity is cheaper and there are fewer people that’ll complain. It’s the same reasoning why they’re building them out in the desert in the U.S., fewer people and a local government that’s easier to bribe.
The proponents are all “we’re going to need this compute power in the EU too!” right so let’s buy it when it’s hideously inflated in the middle of a bubble. Fucking fivehead.
Yeah it’s absurd. A horribly flawed, inefficient attempt by the politicians to claw back some semblance of relevance on a global stage, while serving their own class interests. Just throw more money at the problem, that should fix it. What do you mean the energy grid collapsed?
Nah just some rage click farming as a distraction from telling everyone only America is this pathetic.
Each tree is probably more than $10,000+. Doing the math, they’ll probably pay a fine of about $100, give or take $100
The “move fast, break things” shtick. They mean laws with it. Worst case, you pay a fine.
If the world was a just place they’d pay a fine and pay to have new trees planted where the old ones where removed. Anything short of that is simply the cost of doing business.
You’re not wrong, but Google didn’t just take the trees. They stripped the topsoil:
After the tech company illegally stripped the entire area to build a datacentre – taking even the top soil with it – all that remains is a vast expanse of mud indented with the trail marks of machinery, puddles and mounds of earth, roots and branches.
Wonder why. Wouldn’t have anything to do with making sure Google could not be ordered to replant the illegally felled trees, I’m sure.
So now they should be ordered to replace the topsoil, then replace all the trees, and to pay a massive fine as well.
250,000?! Jesus Christ
Tried that, doesn’t work on trees
I think they nailed him to a cross, not trees. Still didn’t work… but, the more you know!
nah today we worship muppet jesus
All because normies can’t take it upon themselves to do any research and change search engines and stop using google products…we gave them this power.
I hate people.
Individual action as a way to effect change or “voting with your dollar” is a myth that these large corporations benefit from. Sure, we should stop using their services, but you’re never going to convince people to individually give things up in the hundreds of millions.
You gotta force legislators into actually doing their jobs, and failing that, burn down the fucking data centers.
While I agree, its apathy and stupidity that led us to this point. Big tech would have nowhere near this much power if every single person didnt willingly hand out all of their data at every turn and use every big tech product that was advertised to them.
Big tech would have nowhere near this much power if every single person didnt willingly hand out all of their data at every turn and use every big tech product that was advertised to them.
Sure they would. They don’t need every single person, they just need a lot. Most people are apathetic and stupid, this kind of hypothetical doesn’t really get us anywhere. If your mechanism for change doesn’t work when most people are apathetic and stupid, it isn’t going to work.
Collective misbehavior requires collective correction.
Lol blame people while a whole government does fucking nothing but be concerned.
Well yeah but the people elected the government…but yes theyre all corrupt so it doesnt matter much.
It is capitalism that got us corporations and data centers. nobody voted to live under capitalism, and the last time people tried to do anything else we had a civil war over it. blaming the actions of a government and the completely undemocratic system it derives its power from on the people it governs is stupid. you should blame those in power, the politicians and their capitalist overlords, instead of the people who mostly have no say in what their government decides to do to them.
I’m doing my part.
Even made a video to help people get away from Google search.
(TLDW: If you’re stuck using Google, switch to udm14.com. For a good commercial search alternative, use Mojeek. For a non-commercial search alternative, try Marginalia Search.)
I’ve been using DDG.
Last week, Google’s Finland country manager, Antti Järvinen, apologised for the forest clearings but claimed the company had acted “on the best understanding we had of the legislation at the time”.
That understanding being “it’s more profitable to just do it and pay the fine”
So do something.
Yes, please. Fellow Europeans do something. It’s so easy. /s
Will only get worse from there, if no action will be taken now.
I really hope Finns will find organizers to stand up.
'See when you’re rich, they let you do it".
There should be criminal investigations over that and prosecution of Google employees or their contractors, whoever was operating in Finland (and someone had to). If that was indeed all legal, than laws need to be changed.
“When will these Fins rise up and do something?Don’t they see what is happening and they are just sitting around doing nothing. They voted for this.”
Looks to me like YOU guys voted for this, not the Fins
USA does not have jurisdiction over Finland, just sayin’
At the end of the day the rest of the world will decide who they deem responsible. Just like humanity has always done in the past. If America destroys the world, the world won’t care if half of the country was not in support of it. They’ll shun you nonetheless.
One thing US is brilliant at is shaking off responsibility for literally all crimes against humanity
There he is
If you need to belittle someone online to feel better about the inaction of your country, go ahead I don’t mind. But the times in which you got to determine how the world sees you Americans, are over.
If you need to lump every American person together in a homogeneous group, go ahead I don’t mind. But it sounds like the world swallowed the same bullshit the American public has for so long. Congrats, the spell is broken for you. You sound almost sad. Did you swallow the propaganda too? You don’t seem to realize you are the butt if the joke. Now try and understand the difference between a government captured by kleptocrats and the regular folk who are overworked, under paid, and under insured. And now whoever you are on the other side of the world is blaming them for the failures of neoliberalism. A country of slobbering greedy depraved Americans coming to get you. But really you know. You know the vast majority of any country is just full of folk trying to get by. Living in a country brainwashed and captured by corporate interest, policed by officers who dress like soldiers in unmarked cars. So take your indignation back to whatever media bubble you live in. Or tell me this utopia you live in. Are you accepting immigrants?
I can see how my comment was quite confrontational and I understand that it contributed to this reply.
All I can say is that what I feel the world is learning atm is, that America always kinda was the country it is now. It just was able to present a more friendly, agreeable facade. And within understanding that lies the realisation, that the average American has always indulged in the wealth and power that came with being a hegemony in this world.
Previous generations in Europe have faced similar circumstances in the past and I guess we are just a little confused not to see the public go awall like we would expect from ourselves.
I have great sympathy for the dire circumstances you have to face if you choose to go against the system atm. But I’m also very much aware of the exact culture that led to you ending up in this situation in the first place. And yes in Europe countries are not immune to falling victim to the same issues. I guess we’ll have to continue this conversation once we are also forced to make our stance, or give up without a proper fight, like the us seems to be doing rn.
Each tree is priceless, and the forest is more than the sum of its parts.
Expropriate Google’s assets to make up for some of the loss.
Ban them for a year and fine them for triple what is a fair penalty.
Otherwise it’s a business expense
This is a nasty thing to do without proper permits and I fully support Google getting slapped for it. For a country who has practically relied on forestry for 100+ years, the native Finnish subcontractors that everyone uses for these things are surprisingly bad at doing it properly. Last year another company casually crushed over some protected freshwater pearl mussels while doing cuts – which was enviromentally speaking actually a much worse thing than what Google did this year. Nobody outside of Finland probably heard about it though, because there was no “big evil company” involved.
The final responsibility is still Google’s though, of course, but those subcontractors really should have more sense and understanding in what they’re doing.
All that said, let’s calibrate the magnitude of this disaster. They felled 300-400 hectares of commercial forest. That’s about 0.06% of the annual forest harvest in Finland.
Google getting slapped for it
Are you nuts? They deserve the guillotine. Every single one of them. Fuck them. Pieces of shit.
Fine them $1 Billion per tree, AND they have to pay to replace every single tree at its market value for it’s age.
Once that’s all done, then they can request permission to build a new data center, which will be declined. Fuck Google.
I used to work in a municipality that had a fee of $2000/caliper inch for illegally removed trees and placed a conservation easement over the critical root zone, preventing the developers from being able to just cut down the tree and pay the fee.
A bit carried away with B$/tree?
I read about the displaced wildlife. This is really horrific. Their government should ban Google from the country, take back their land and make them pay to reforest. Fuck Google. I was a little complacent with my Gmail but I’m done. This is just fucking awful. In this state of global warming these assholes ripped up a whole forest. Fuck them.
Well Finland you do want to keep making anti-Russia hysterical propaganda, yes? AI is the way these days.
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Open to hearing your thoughts, but I think what you might be seeing is a combination of
- people who don’t like the politics on Reddit are more likely to be here
- Canadians who are angry at the current american administration (and likely historic actions as well), are more likely to oppose the US and policies/entities associated with the US
- our instances make up a larger part of the threadiverse
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Again, open to hearing your thoughts on this. It sounds like you think there’s something we should be doing differently
can we talk about the amount of trolls on the lemmy.ca and piefed.ca instances?
We’ve banned plenty of troll-like accounts and are actively working on updated guidelines. Now is a good time to point out issues
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It’s only illegal if you do something about it.
