I’m looking for specific suggestions of what I can do to find a group that I can join for the purpose of building a real revolution inside the USA. I’m trying and finding it very difficult. The closest was PSL but honestly my local branch seems kind of limp. That and I’m not academically inclined enough to get through Capital.
Avoid any group that begins their political reflection with a goal (like revolution), and join those that begin from a need. Do the same, and paths will appear.
There’s people who won’t like me saying this, but I put a pin in the revolution talk to work on what’s immediate.
Like you, I’ve tried local groups and found they tend to have small, disconnected local chapters and actions sometimes have questionable efficacy.
I think some of this comes from being so focused on “the revolution”. I get it, groups like PSL don’t want to get bogged down becoming a band-aid organization. They want to get rid of the broken system, not be a food bank in a system designed to make people hungry. I’ve done the reading so I understand where they’re coming from here.
But then I attend meetings with groups that have about 10 regular attendees who mostly seem to tell each other to read more theory and paint a lot of banners. They get frustrated that the revolution didn’t come after the latest sit-in, call each other every political science term in the book, and break off to form an even smaller, less effective group.
What I’m trying now are advocacy groups for specific causes I care about. They more often seem to include members of impacted communities and have a better idea of their needs.
I suggest giving Jane McAlevey’s “No Shortcuts” a read. It tackles the strategies and the how-to of labor organizing, but you can apply the exact same principles to organizing in any group.
Offline. Build community.
Yeah I’m aware of that part, I was looking for tips for how to find the offline people
Oh ok, I figured I’d start by volunteering in my community wherever they need help, maybe food banks? Any place you can get to know your neighbors.
Stop.
What youre saying would make a lot of sense if we were in the middle of a domestic war or complete social breakdown. That’s when you can successfully revolt. We are not in either of those situations so you can’t just jump to the group that’s gonna do the revolution and be a part of it.
Since you can’t storm the bastille, the next best thing would be to prepare for it, but that requires having some conception of what “it” is and that requires doing the work of reading and theorizing, which you said you won’t do.
So stop.
If you feel crazy and just want to be doing something, there’s a ton of anarchist groups out there that you can put infinite personal energy into for questionable gain.
You might also be a fed or an unknowing asset. This is a public website and what you are saying is public.
Revolution does not spontaneously become organized, organization needs to happen prior to revolution to turn crisis into a struggle against the system.
I agree, and believe the op is either unable or unwilling (by their own description) to do that work of organizing.
Which isn’t an insult. It sucks and is hard and feels bad. Who would want to do that?
Coming to this thread because it’s a lot of what I was trying to say with the hypothetical, and you seem to agree with it here. Do you literally think it’s impossible to organize without reading Capital? If I can manage to read this one book (with no help from others), then everything will be explained and I’ll be able to organize effectively?
You do need to be willing to learn, but unlike what the TrollAccount is telling you, reading Capital is not a prerequisite. Understanding the basics to the extent that you can correctly explain them to others will be a major benefit, yes, but you do not have to have to have read Capital all the way through as some minimum bar where not having done it yet is preventing you from connecting and working with others. The more you know, the better off you’ll be, but whatever level you are at, that should not stop you from getting organized. Groups that teach and learn theory in addition to doing real world praxis are the best anyway. You do definitely need to be open and willing to do difficult things, and starting off with a refusal to read a foundational text makes it seem like you aren’t ready to do hard work when confronted with it, which I think might be where TrollAccount is coming from. But you still should do what you can, even if you aren’t able at this point to read a genuinely long and difficult text. And given what you said in your post, it sounds like you have been trying to start doing what you can, which is good and commendable. But don’t preemptively cut yourself off from something (like reading foundational text) because it sounds like difficult work, the whole point is that you have to be willing to do difficult work.
Half of what this other user is telling you is very true, but the other half shouldn’t be taken to heart. Another example being where they said “It sucks and is hard and feels bad.” It is hard, that is undeniably true. It can suck at times, it probably will in some ways, but in other ways it can and will be extremely rewarding. It does not feel bad, though. Living under capitalism feels bad in general, but getting organized and doing real work actually feels quite good! Feeling good shouldn’t be your primary motivation of course, but it should not come as a surprise that working together with other human beings towards a shared goal would feel good to any member of a social species.
From your perspective it’s an arbitrary and meaningless roadblock, but from the perspective of groups you’re trying to get involved with it’s a fundamental cornerstone to developing an understanding you share with the group.
That is necessary for the group because of a bunch of reasons, they might be interested in making sure you grasp the idea of not wasting energy on the lumpen or upholding the mass line for example. They might need to make sure their members can stand up to the most basic scrutiny possible before turning them loose on the public. They might gain critical understanding about you as a person that helps them trust you or at least not view you as an infiltrator. Heck, they might just see you as a comrade worth developing.
That’s why I suggested multiple times that you stop trying to join communist groups. Anarchists and electoralists will gladly put you to work to accomplish their ends regardless of your understanding.
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Based on other things you’ve said, a better reaction would be to offer resources that can help me understand some of the deeper concepts. That would show you have a real movement you’re working with and a real interest in helping people. Otherwise it just seems like your motivation comes from a mindset of superiority.
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This is the first time you’ve said that the “Stop.” was specifically about joining Communist orgs.
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The mention of joining an anarchist or electoralist org doesn’t actually answer the question I had. Obviously electoralism is inherently not revolutionary. And I know that anarchists exist, the question was about how to find people I can organize with.
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Those are 2 funny things (lumpen and mass line) to bring up in this conversation. Given that the person who pioneered the latter disagreed (to a degree) with the former and also likely didn’t read Capital before leading a successful revolution. Also one of the most powerful leftist movements in the USA actually organized around the lumpen (Black Panthers).
You’re unwilling to engage with a foundational communist text that has infinity translations into every language in common parlance, readily available audiobooks, prerecorded reading groups in every format imaginable and actual real time reading groups on the instance you’re posting this thread in.
What resource can I possibly offer you when you describe yourself as unwilling to avail yourself of those around you?
I get it, reading a bunch of old stuff sucks but you’re talking about getting into groups that are trying their god damnedest to not hand the gospel down to you from a pulpit but to help you learn it for yourself. At some point if you wanna be a deacon you gotta crack the good book, right?
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I’m not unwilling to read and theorize, but Capital is extremely long and dense. Expecting every member of a movement to be at that level of academia is a great way to alienate vast swaths of people and will seriously limit any real revolutionary potential. I’d rather be apart of a people’s movement that includes the illiterate than strictly surround myself with intellectuals. How the fuck are we supposed to build a better world for everyone if we’re unwilling to work with all types of people?
I’ve worked with people who read Capital annually and I can’t get them to show up to an action on time or to get through it without calling a mentally ill unhoused person a reactionary.
I’ve worked with people who haven’t skimmed the manifesto but work every week getting food for their communities.
The latter are much better to work with.
Ideal conditions would mean organizers are all super politically literate and active, but I agree with you that you can’t expect every member of a movement to read stuff like this as a prerequisite to organizing. Cadre members? Of course they should read. But the fascists aren’t making general members read hefty political tomes.
People’s movements that included the illiterate made teaching literacy a priority with capital often used as a pedagogical text.
Learning the history and theory is how you understand the revolutionary potential of any given moment.
Bringing everyone who wants to be a part of the movement to a shared level of understanding as equals is how we choose to work with all types of people.
If you just feel like there’s no time to read a book and can’t be convinced otherwise by literally every successful movement in all of history then there are anarchist groups that will put you to work or liberal electoralist organizations that will do the same.
I think this belies an incorrect understanding of equality. We cannot and should not expect every person to have the same level of understanding, that’s not how people work. Equality of outcome is an impossible goal, what is possible is equality of opportunity. Obviously there should be people in the movement with true expertise of the theory in question, but other experts are needed and most people aren’t experts in multiple things.
It’s not just about the revolution itself, it’s about planning the world that comes after it. That means needing experts in agriculture, medicine, architecture, supply chains, manufacturing, cooking, cleaning, and so much more. Even organizing and battle strategies are different skill sets than the ability to read and internalize what is essentially a doctoral thesis, especially one that is about 10x longer and written over 100 years ago.
Also, any movement worth doing should be able to include people with no expertise at all. People who are ready to work for that better world even if they don’t understand all of the intricacies of how it functions or the path to get there. None of that should take away from their equality.
Actual existing socialist movements that became actual existing socialist states successfully taught people to read using the book capital.
None of the roles involved in operating the socialist state or tearing down the bourgeois state preclude literacy.
Experts in their fields need to understand history and theory in order to be able to figure out new forms of organization.
We are not storming the battlements. There are not ditches to be dug. All serious communist movements in the imperial core strive to understand the conditions of the moment and determine how they should respond to them. That requires history and theory.
Again, if you just feel like you’re gonna fly to pieces if you don’t do something, there are anarchist and electoralist groups that will put you to work.
It sucks to have a fire lit under your ass and have the people who did it say “now sit on your burning ass and read this long boring book and have a talk with us about it afterwards.” It’s not something you can make an effective end run around.
But how are you preparing for the revolution?
Here’s a hypothetical. You have all the theory and your group of people for your academic discussions on what that means and how it applies to the modern day, while making sure to keep anyone out who’s unwilling or unable to complete your reading list. One day, in the not too distant future, the time comes. There’s a crisis and the conditions for revolution have arrived and the people are calling for it. How do you react without a coalition? Who’s going to follow you? How do you actually takeover the government without building a community and infrastructure to do so?
It would be so cool if you had done the fucking reading so we could have that conversation.
That’s your problem. You won’t even have the conversation with someone less educated than you.
With food. People love food.
Not knowing where you are, it’s hard to say. But you might as well start with whatever is most accessible to you. Getting involved will help you get to know who’s doing what and how in your area. I will say it’s usually easier to move from less to more radical groups than the other way around, so if you’re shopping around, you might want to start with a more mainstream group.
Just an idea: have a look in ask Lemmy or no stupid questions for posts of people who have asked similar questions in the last 12 months or so. How to bring about change or how to start a revolution has been asked. In those posts you’ll at least find another user who is thinking along your lines. There may be more in the comments. Reach out to them.
Join DSA. If your chapter is run by soc dems organize the change you want to see. My comrades have pulled many people in my chapter to the left including myself. And when I say left I mean we are championing true revolutionary ideas and attempting to build an org that can rise to seize that moment when it comes. Get your commie friends and help us move this org in the right direction.
Also PSL is an antidemocratic, high control organization that purges people who speak out on the sexual assault and abuse their leaders and members commit. They are unserious about changing the material conditions in this country to further organize the working class to achieve their goals.
The definition of a revolution is ending up right where you started. Realistically lobbying groups by individuals are the best current way to drive change
No? This is ridiculous, all major change has come through revolution.
The largest changes in human history such as electricity, medicine, lower crime, increased living standards etc all came from reform inside a system barring maybe the French revolution which was a blood bath that led to a dictatorship. Name 5 revolutions with positive outcomes
Such as?
The best way is to be a charismatic leader who draws people to your cause.
Revolutions aren’t started by people joining groups and building committees. They are started through cults of personality (for a person or a thing).
Revolutions are won through organized groups of disciplined revolutionaries preparing for crisis. You are speaking to the opposite of historical revolution.
The folks who downvote me should read more history 🤣
The folks who are downvoting you have read history, enough to recognize your ahistorical bullshit for what it is.
Usually through sexual activity, be it solo or with friends and family
Leave my mother out of this, then I’ll let yours leave my cellar! 😋
Pfft, you can keep her. She’s grumpy and worn out. Ima go steal OP’s mom.
Usually through sexual activity …
i keep trying, but its not working :p
Ummmmm. My brain did a thing. That title doesn’t actually ask how to orgasm, does it?
no, but your brain made it so much better. lol
