Between Framework at least trying to build an open ecosystem, there are very very few other options out there. Yes they can probably do better, still they are effectively the only decent open option (for me at least) at a reasonable price and quality.
They’ve been called out. Boyhowdy have they been called out. You can’t mention “Framework” on Mastodon without someone chiming in to tell you about all this and try and shame you into not considering a Framework machine. I think they have been sufficiently called out.
Hyprland might have some toxic community issues but calling it the project of Nazis is outright disinformation. The guy behind Omarchy is also likely not a Nazi, he might be called right extreme through, certainly anti-Islam and anti-Immigration. Nothing of that bleeds into the Omarchy project which has really nothing to do with politics. Now the question is are you going to support an apolitical project that you like for its merits, if the key person behind it is far right, or do you not?
I can understand both positions but just supporting such a project, doesn’t make every supporter a right extreme, let alone a Nazi. That is hyperbole.
He once said London is worse because it has fewer whites. He used some shitty noncommital dogwhistle phrase like “native British” or something like that, but the statistic he referred to (and actually referenced when saying that) was about the percentage of white Londoners. When this was pointed out to him, he didn’t go “oops, how embarrassing, let me adjust the statistics I referred to”, or “let me clarify my point” or anything like that. He just whined that he wasn’t allowed to have an opinion. Not what I’d expect from someone who said white nationalist stuff by accident.
So, is he a card carrying member of the early 20th century German National Socialist party? No. But I don’t think it’s overblown to call him a nazi.
That makes him a racist bad enough but does he also call for dictatorship or genocide? Because that is what Nazis did.
If only the dictatorship applies to him, we can debate it at least if he fits the description Nazi.
But then, I find the guy horrible anyhow and I don’t care about Omarchy but like not everyone driving a Tesla is a right extreme, not everyone using Omarchy is one either.
It doesn’t hurt to be precise with words but maybe that’s just me. A racist is not necessarily trying to overthrow a democratic government, a fascist is.
You need to straighten out your definition of fascist. Hitler is a fascist. Take your favorite definition of fascist, like Ecco’s or whatever, and Hitler will satisfy it. He does fascism. His policies are militaristic, nationalistic, he enacts laws to suppress minorities, etc. Someone who votes for Hitler does none of those things, but they’re still a fascist by any sensible meaning of the word.
Today, there are fascists operating in our democratic systems. From the British National Party to Trump. Not all of them are actively overthrowing the systems they exist in. One such fascist is Tommy Robinson. DHH has expressed explicit support for Robinson and his white nationalist rallies.
You do not know DHH’s politics. You don’t know who he voted for. Nor do I. But we can make an educated guess based on his open white nationalism and his explicit support for fascists. If someone basically tells you “hi, I’m a fascist”, you believe them.
Also, I don’t know who you think you’re helping by playing these semantic games (based on shoddy definitions btw).
I was nowhere saying that Hitler wasn’t fascist.
A fascist needs to have at least the ambition to overthrow the democratic system with free and fair elections, rule of law and free media.
The BNP and Trump fulfill that criterion. Does DHH do so? If so, can you please provide me with some source for that claim? I wasn’t aware of that so far. He may very well be a secret fascist but anyone might be. So you speculate that he is a fascist because he is a racist. Fine, but that is speculation. Not every racist is a fascist even if there is some overlap.
No, please read my full comment. He is very likely to be a fascist because he supports fascists. And you can find the source of his support of Robinson in my earlier comment.
You realize that “apolitical” is an extremely well-known nazi dog-whistle / pure apologetics these days, right? I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy framework, that’s your call to make, and my threshold-to-nazi is clearly different from yours, but I do think people should at least look at who they’re in bed with.
Sure everything has a definition.
Like antropsophy - doesn’t mean it makes sense.
IMO there is no such thing as “apolitical”. Organisations or projects where money or resources flow are automatically political. Because where are the resources or the money coming from?
Is every commercial activity not political? Engaging in a commercial activity by definition has some socioeconomic impact(or else this activity would not be viable), and therefore is political in my opinion.
There is a political movement opposing the making and selling of sheep cheese:
Veganism
-> the ethical part of it is political.
How much do you pay the workers selling the cheese?
-> political
How are you allowed to buy sheep? Online? In a package? Are you allowed to clone it?
-> political
How many taxes do you pay - how much does “big sheep”?
-> political
So while it mostly is not a political act of you to sell the sheep-cheese there are a lot of political questions surrounding the selling of it.
It can however also be a political act: selling sheep’s milk at a religious event that is strictly against sheep’s being milked by humans can be seen as a form of protest.
I notice you glossed over all the other political aspects of selling sheep cheese that they listed.
The price is political. Who you sell to is political. Who milks the sheep is political. Zoning for sheep grazing is political. Property is political. Feed is political. Animal welfare is political. Owning animals is political. It’s all politics, all the way down.
Any time people are involved, politics follow. “Apolitical” is a lie told by people who want their politics to just be “normal”.
I always suspected the miniature rail operators in the local city park are proponents of big rail feeding already the youngest with pro-rail propaganda!
Definitions, or rather language, tend to change over time. Usually turning into their opposites. And nothing stops people, in this case right wingers, to abuse a term to hide their crap either. See “Evolution: Contoversy”. No,I’m sorry, just like “Hacker” has become a synonym for “Cracker” & “Black Hat”, so “apolitical” has become a fig leaf to “hide” right wing bullshit in plain sight
Usually very old (more tenth than second-hand) Lenovo ThinkPads (And, yes, I am aware of IBMs involvement in Holocaust management via the Deutsche Hollerith-Maschienen AG), they tend to be ok for neat things like LibreBoot too. If I didn’t want to tinker with them myself I’d buy directly from https://minifree.org/ instead. Sure, they are oooooold, but I’m a programmer of the vim-persuasion, but not compiling horrible languages like C++, so I really don’t need much. That said: I am ok with people making their own decisions, following their own moral compass; I really just wanted to make sure that they are at least aware and can make an informed decision ;-)
I do not agree with everything in that thread but I do agree on that part: every project or organisation that is involved in flow of money or resources(which dev-time is!) is automatically living in a political space.
There’s loads of articles out there about them,not my job to explain them to you. You may disagree with their conclusions, of course, but othes may draw conclusions from your behaviour, too. In this sense: plonk
Yes warning someone that they are about to get their fingers bitten off by a user from one of the most disingenuous groups online is the stupidest things you’ve ever seen then you must live in at the CERN LHC and never go out.
Thinking the entirety of the third largest, oldest Lemmy instance is a cultural, political, or even behavioral monolith makes a room temperature IQ enviable. Clearly all 58k .ml users believe and behave similarly. Clearly.
Just writing this sarcastically managed to make me even stupider.
I’m going to reply one more time and then block because there is no point in debating.
The .ml instance (including hex and grad) is one of the most controlled instances. Anything that doesn’t align with support to authoritarian regime’s objectives is nearly immediately silenced and will probably get you a ban from the whole instance itself. There are countless examples on https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
I invite everyone reading this exchange to go there and make an opinion for themselves. The mods actions from .ml speak volumes just as the behaviour of their users (and brigading I can already see here).
I think people saying this is not a problem are downplaying the fact that framework actively decided to support a project with problematic political tendencies at highest role - allow me to be that unconcrete did not read through the entire thing.
However I think looking at other manufacturers I see nothing comparable in it’s reach that is really a community focused manufacturer. Microsoft straight up supports trump, so do many of the others. I think running lenovo depends on these same programs (correct me if I’m wrong).
To;Dr:
Maybe fascist? idk. But the others support same organisations. Don’t they?
Something about no ethical consumption under capitalism. Perfect is the enemy of good. I agree what they shouldn’t be supporting Nazis and that we need groups willing and able to counter the small selection of oligarch owned manufacturing systems.
Sucks because I was strongly considering Framework for my next laptop. That said, it sounds like they may rethink their sponsorship approach with that bit at the end - they acknowledged the past issues with the Hyprland community but did due diligence, and they plan to involve the community more going forward.
I think it was bc it was a simple, easy way to get the cool part of linux ricing without much necessary knowledge of linux. But it was definitely huge for at least several months
Now, if only they considered not sponsoring nazis… https://www.theregister.com/2025/10/14/framework_linux_controversy/
Between Framework at least trying to build an open ecosystem, there are very very few other options out there. Yes they can probably do better, still they are effectively the only decent open option (for me at least) at a reasonable price and quality.
Doesn’t mean we shouldn’t call them out though.
They’ve been called out. Boyhowdy have they been called out. You can’t mention “Framework” on Mastodon without someone chiming in to tell you about all this and try and shame you into not considering a Framework machine. I think they have been sufficiently called out.
Given that there are multiple replies from people that had not been aware…
I wasn’t aware, but I’m not that familiar with the Framework organization. All I knew was that their laptops are easily upgraded.
Hyprland might have some toxic community issues but calling it the project of Nazis is outright disinformation. The guy behind Omarchy is also likely not a Nazi, he might be called right extreme through, certainly anti-Islam and anti-Immigration. Nothing of that bleeds into the Omarchy project which has really nothing to do with politics. Now the question is are you going to support an apolitical project that you like for its merits, if the key person behind it is far right, or do you not?
I can understand both positions but just supporting such a project, doesn’t make every supporter a right extreme, let alone a Nazi. That is hyperbole.
He once said London is worse because it has fewer whites. He used some shitty noncommital dogwhistle phrase like “native British” or something like that, but the statistic he referred to (and actually referenced when saying that) was about the percentage of white Londoners. When this was pointed out to him, he didn’t go “oops, how embarrassing, let me adjust the statistics I referred to”, or “let me clarify my point” or anything like that. He just whined that he wasn’t allowed to have an opinion. Not what I’d expect from someone who said white nationalist stuff by accident.
So, is he a card carrying member of the early 20th century German National Socialist party? No. But I don’t think it’s overblown to call him a nazi.
This post has some more details:
https://tekin.co.uk/2025/09/the-ruby-community-has-a-dhh-problem
That makes him a racist bad enough but does he also call for dictatorship or genocide? Because that is what Nazis did. If only the dictatorship applies to him, we can debate it at least if he fits the description Nazi.
But then, I find the guy horrible anyhow and I don’t care about Omarchy but like not everyone driving a Tesla is a right extreme, not everyone using Omarchy is one either.
That’s “otherwise it’s just sparkling fascism” level semantics.
It doesn’t hurt to be precise with words but maybe that’s just me. A racist is not necessarily trying to overthrow a democratic government, a fascist is.
You need to straighten out your definition of fascist. Hitler is a fascist. Take your favorite definition of fascist, like Ecco’s or whatever, and Hitler will satisfy it. He does fascism. His policies are militaristic, nationalistic, he enacts laws to suppress minorities, etc. Someone who votes for Hitler does none of those things, but they’re still a fascist by any sensible meaning of the word.
Today, there are fascists operating in our democratic systems. From the British National Party to Trump. Not all of them are actively overthrowing the systems they exist in. One such fascist is Tommy Robinson. DHH has expressed explicit support for Robinson and his white nationalist rallies.
You do not know DHH’s politics. You don’t know who he voted for. Nor do I. But we can make an educated guess based on his open white nationalism and his explicit support for fascists. If someone basically tells you “hi, I’m a fascist”, you believe them.
Also, I don’t know who you think you’re helping by playing these semantic games (based on shoddy definitions btw).
I was nowhere saying that Hitler wasn’t fascist. A fascist needs to have at least the ambition to overthrow the democratic system with free and fair elections, rule of law and free media.
The BNP and Trump fulfill that criterion. Does DHH do so? If so, can you please provide me with some source for that claim? I wasn’t aware of that so far. He may very well be a secret fascist but anyone might be. So you speculate that he is a fascist because he is a racist. Fine, but that is speculation. Not every racist is a fascist even if there is some overlap.
No, please read my full comment. He is very likely to be a fascist because he supports fascists. And you can find the source of his support of Robinson in my earlier comment.
deleted by creator
You realize that “apolitical” is an extremely well-known nazi dog-whistle / pure apologetics these days, right? I’m not saying you shouldn’t buy framework, that’s your call to make, and my threshold-to-nazi is clearly different from yours, but I do think people should at least look at who they’re in bed with.
apolitical is also a word with a definition
Sure everything has a definition. Like antropsophy - doesn’t mean it makes sense.
IMO there is no such thing as “apolitical”. Organisations or projects where money or resources flow are automatically political. Because where are the resources or the money coming from?
So absolutely every commercial activity is “political”? What is the political nature of selling sheep cheese for example?
Is every commercial activity not political? Engaging in a commercial activity by definition has some socioeconomic impact(or else this activity would not be viable), and therefore is political in my opinion.
There is a political movement opposing the making and selling of sheep cheese: Veganism -> the ethical part of it is political.
How much do you pay the workers selling the cheese? -> political
How are you allowed to buy sheep? Online? In a package? Are you allowed to clone it? -> political
How many taxes do you pay - how much does “big sheep”? -> political
So while it mostly is not a political act of you to sell the sheep-cheese there are a lot of political questions surrounding the selling of it.
It can however also be a political act: selling sheep’s milk at a religious event that is strictly against sheep’s being milked by humans can be seen as a form of protest.
Veganism may be political, but to construe selling sheep cheese as a political statement against veganism is absurd.
I notice you glossed over all the other political aspects of selling sheep cheese that they listed.
The price is political. Who you sell to is political. Who milks the sheep is political. Zoning for sheep grazing is political. Property is political. Feed is political. Animal welfare is political. Owning animals is political. It’s all politics, all the way down.
Any time people are involved, politics follow. “Apolitical” is a lie told by people who want their politics to just be “normal”.
To fight big cow dairy?
I always suspected the miniature rail operators in the local city park are proponents of big rail feeding already the youngest with pro-rail propaganda!
Definitions, or rather language, tend to change over time. Usually turning into their opposites. And nothing stops people, in this case right wingers, to abuse a term to hide their crap either. See “Evolution: Contoversy”. No,I’m sorry, just like “Hacker” has become a synonym for “Cracker” & “Black Hat”, so “apolitical” has become a fig leaf to “hide” right wing bullshit in plain sight
what do you buy instead?
Usually very old (more tenth than second-hand) Lenovo ThinkPads (And, yes, I am aware of IBMs involvement in Holocaust management via the Deutsche Hollerith-Maschienen AG), they tend to be ok for neat things like LibreBoot too. If I didn’t want to tinker with them myself I’d buy directly from https://minifree.org/ instead. Sure, they are oooooold, but I’m a programmer of the vim-persuasion, but not compiling horrible languages like C++, so I really don’t need much. That said: I am ok with people making their own decisions, following their own moral compass; I really just wanted to make sure that they are at least aware and can make an informed decision ;-)
Ok, please, go ahead, explain me the political dimension of any part of Omarchy. No, not the guy behind it, the Linux “distro”. I am listening.
And what exactly makes any leading figure of Hyprland an actual Nazi? Please elaborate with concrete arguments.
I do not agree with everything in that thread but I do agree on that part: every project or organisation that is involved in flow of money or resources(which dev-time is!) is automatically living in a political space.
There’s loads of articles out there about them,not my job to explain them to you. You may disagree with their conclusions, of course, but othes may draw conclusions from your behaviour, too. In this sense: plonk
I don’t know what you’re expecting debating with a .ml honestly.
I’ve seen the many forms in which human stupidity manifests, but Lemmy instance tribalism is absolutely one of the stupidest things I’ve ever seen.
Yes warning someone that they are about to get their fingers bitten off by a user from one of the most disingenuous groups online is the stupidest things you’ve ever seen then you must live in at the CERN LHC and never go out.
Thinking the entirety of the third largest, oldest Lemmy instance is a cultural, political, or even behavioral monolith makes a room temperature IQ enviable. Clearly all 58k .ml users believe and behave similarly. Clearly.
Just writing this sarcastically managed to make me even stupider.
I’m going to reply one more time and then block because there is no point in debating.
The .ml instance (including hex and grad) is one of the most controlled instances. Anything that doesn’t align with support to authoritarian regime’s objectives is nearly immediately silenced and will probably get you a ban from the whole instance itself. There are countless examples on https://sh.itjust.works/c/meanwhileongrad
I invite everyone reading this exchange to go there and make an opinion for themselves. The mods actions from .ml speak volumes just as the behaviour of their users (and brigading I can already see here).
Fuck tankies.
I think people saying this is not a problem are downplaying the fact that framework actively decided to support a project with problematic political tendencies at highest role - allow me to be that unconcrete did not read through the entire thing. However I think looking at other manufacturers I see nothing comparable in it’s reach that is really a community focused manufacturer. Microsoft straight up supports trump, so do many of the others. I think running lenovo depends on these same programs (correct me if I’m wrong).
To;Dr: Maybe fascist? idk. But the others support same organisations. Don’t they?
Something about no ethical consumption under capitalism. Perfect is the enemy of good. I agree what they shouldn’t be supporting Nazis and that we need groups willing and able to counter the small selection of oligarch owned manufacturing systems.
Sucks because I was strongly considering Framework for my next laptop. That said, it sounds like they may rethink their sponsorship approach with that bit at the end - they acknowledged the past issues with the Hyprland community but did due diligence, and they plan to involve the community more going forward.
May be empty promises but time will tell.
They’re literally just sponsoring one of the biggest wms out there, I don’t feel like that’s abt framework, rather then hyprland/vaxry
What’s the excuse for omarchy? It’s completely irrelevant.
I don’t like omarchy either, but for several months it was one of the biggest things bringing new users to linux
I rather doubt that… I wouldn’t even know it existed if framework hadn’t sponsored it.
I think it was bc it was a simple, easy way to get the cool part of linux ricing without much necessary knowledge of linux. But it was definitely huge for at least several months
what computing company hasn’t sponsored nazis?
its not a black and white decision
Tenuous at best.
Follow the money and see when it starts getting uncomfortable for you.