https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/c/lgbtq_plus_christianity
this is probably gonna be controversial, but i mean this for people who actually follow christ’s teachings and not to be a cesspool of homophobia and transphobia.
https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/c/lgbtq_plus_christianity
this is probably gonna be controversial, but i mean this for people who actually follow christ’s teachings and not to be a cesspool of homophobia and transphobia.
Which part of I don’t care about whether I fit or not into your definition of “being a Christian” you didn’t get?
“Taking it seriously” does not imply “being forced to accept that everything must be taken literally even when stretched to its extreme logical conclusions”.
Who cares.
I’m pointing out that any definition includes believing in the Bible, as it’s a core tenet in Christianity.
I’m not here to tell you what to believe. I’m just saying my personal belief is that anyone claiming to be Christian (other monotheist) while not even having read the scripture is a hypocrite who’s only doing it out of social pressure.
“Believing in the Bible” does not imply “being forced to accept that everything must be taken literally even when stretched to its extreme logical conclusions”.
To be accepted into the Church, you need to accept Jesus and renounce your sins. No one was asked to read the whole Bible and accept it as some Terms and Conditions.
And I’m saying that arguing over the validity of “claims to be Christian” is irrelevant to anyone but fundamentalists.
Social pressure from which side? Taking this thread as a sample, it seems that the only ones that care about “claims of being Christian” are the extremists.
This is what I meant with the part about how you could change your religion in the conversation to be literally whatever and the conversation would still be exactly the same. So clearly you don’t even know the tenets or sacraments or anything about Christianity, so why would you identify as one?
We don’t know each other in any social context. Me using logic here is not “social pressure”. Your grandma being pissed at you if you had to point to her what a whackadoodle you need to be to profess belief in the Bible is social pressure.
Did I mock my grandma for her religion or criticise Christianity to her? Of course fucking not, I loved her. But this is a literal thread asking about religion, and I’m pointing out the hypocrisy, which I think isn’t wrong for this thread.
I’m asking pretty simple questions and not saying what people should do or believe in.
Really? As an exercise, imagine you are a gay man and you went to talk about it with a priest. Now imagine the same gay man going to talk about it with an Imam. How do you think these conversations would go?
Take your best shot, give both of them the most charitable/noble representation of their respective values. Do you really think that we would get the same outcomes?
Both would work quite well in Finland.
In Iran or the US, theocracies, they wouldn’t work either.
You know that monotheism is exclusive and hates differences. Yet you’re too fucking scared to call them out on what they are, because the Mary-Sues and Josephs at your local bible-camp wouldn’t like it.
Monotheism is absolute cancer which hates everything different.
Anyone who’s read basics of history and theology knows that
Back in polytheistic societies like Norway and Greece etc, people were far more progressive than comparative monotheist societies.
Yet you defending Christianity. It’s ridiculous. You don’t know anything and you don’t follow any tenets. So you don’t actually believe in the 10 commandments. Who the fuck does?
Yet you’re too scared to call it the BS it is. You can still enjoy community without claiming to be a Christian. Perhaps in America you can’t…?
I’m born and raised in Brazil. Lived in the US from 2008 to 2013. Now I’m living in Germany - more specifically, in Berlin.
In the US, I had some family and friends. In Germany I was all on my own, so I’ve tried getting integrated. I went out to meet different people. I wasn’t just stuck in my room all day long. The friends that I did do turned out to be invariably Italians, Polish, Israelis, Spaniards. The best I could say about the people from Nordic backgrounds were “they are my acquaintance”. Dating in Berlin was weird - much similar to New York - where I’d never know if I was just getting myself into some mindless hook-up or a detailed plan establishing the contract terms of the relationship.
I was in 3 years already in Berlin and I was seriously considering moving out, when I’ve met a (Greek) woman who I am so very lucky to be able to call “my wife”. She had moved to Berlin just one year before me, and though she had a much larger social circle than mine, they were also mostly of other Greeks. When we started dating, her group of friends didn’t see me as an attachment to her friend. They took me in as part of the group. I’ve became friends with them as well, we would go play ball or hang out even if my then-girlfriend couldn’t make that one night.
All of this to say: you are getting at this backwards. I’m not saying that I went to the religion to get “accepted” by peers. What I am saying is that even when I was surrounded by people, they were pretty much all of them completely atomized individuals. This feeling only changed when I found myself closer to people with other cultures who still have a higher attachment to their cultural roots.
I don’t care for your personal history, it had absolutely nothing to do with Christianity, which is the topic of the thread.
Monotheism is bad and religious people, monotheists especially, are usually dragged into progressive values despite their resistance to them.
It’s beyond insane how much of the world you’re having to ignore just to keep identifying as a Christian despite not believing in single tenet of the religion.
So I remind you of the argument I said before; it genuinely wouldn’t make any rhetorical difference what religion you changed into this conversation for Christianity. You ask whether Christianity is compatible with being trans, but then you refuse to say what notion of being Christian is.
So I’m to just take it that you just like to think your Christian, despite deriving all your personal moral from the world, like people do?
You can’t name what these “Christian values” are that you’re asking about. Yet you insist that you have them.
Wtf?
I didn’t say any such thing. I asked (someone else, a “self-professed” Christian, not you!) the opposite of that: I asked what was so bad about having a community of people who are trying to reconcile their life choices with their Christian faith.
The other guy went on to say “they are using the flag! The flag is a sign of people who do not repent, and that is sin”. Okay, I think this answer is stupid and left at that.
You on the other hand got on a little a soapbox to expose yourself as the utmost authority about all and any religion. Congrats! Do you want a cookie before or after I block you and go on with my day?
And if you say you have a belief system, but then that belief system doesn’t have any tenets, any scripture, and the scripture it has means nothing or that you actually haven’t even read the scripture that you claim to believe in “non-literally”, you don’t actually have a belief system.
Jesus, you really don’t know jack shit of the religion you claim to believe in. Yes, there very much is a "read thr while Bible and confirm your Faith.
It’s literally called a confirmation.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation
Now the practice in the modern world isn’t as common, because it’s easier to just default to “you accepted the T&C with your Baptism”, but it is still a literal SACRAMENT in the religion. (I don’t believe you could list other sacraments, or even the meaning of the word.)
I have had a confirmation. You literally spend a week reading the Bible, after which you get confirmed. No, you can’t fail, it’s not a test, but it does show you how ridiculous the Bible is and it’s just a fun thing for teenagers to do and you get loads of money as presents from family members.
You don’t seem to know anything about Christianity, you don’t seem to have any rules set by it, you don’t seem to be able to say you believe in any specific bit in it, yet you claim that you definitely are.
And I’m just asking WHY?
You could just as well claim you’re some other religion, like Buddhism, and then just pretend your beliefs come from that. As of now in this conversation, changing your religion wouldn’t change the conversation a single bit. That’s how little Christianity matters to you, but you since there’s social pressure, you won’t accept any of this.
Okay. I’ll grant you that. I don’t particularly care about the “belief system”. I don’t particularly care about doctrine. I don’t believe that the Earth is 6000 years old and I don’t live my life thinking of where I will end up once I’m gone. If this is your only idea of “being Christian”, then I’m certainly not it.
Because of the community that comes with it. Because of the culture that is developed around it. Because it is the foundation of the Western World. Because most of the people/cultures that I’ve seen trying to reject those values have lost themselves to something worse. Because other religions seems to treat this world as a mere passage way, and Judeo-Christian cultures are also concerned about working to leave this place better than what was found.
Dude I’ve literally shown you how much more I know and understand about Christianity than you do. You know that you didn’t know what a confirmation is, much less being able to name ALL the sacrament. Hell, you probably even wouldn’t be able to define the word without googling.
I can list all the sacrament, because I’ve studied the Bible and Christianity, as a former Christian who was brought up in Christianity.
But you don’t even admit to your ignorance about your own faith, when said ignorance is literally the point of this conversation.
Yeah, just like I said, hypocritical believers who are just too scared to admit the ONLY REASON they’re identifying as Christians is LITERALLY that others wouldn’t accept them not identifying as a Christian.
That’s exactly my point.
However in more secular countries, you can. You don’t need to be a part of the church to engage in social activities and people don’t socially hang you out to dry if you acknowledge what ridiculous contradictory bullshit the Bible is.
WRONG. Propaganda, bullshit and utterly fucking wrong.
Monotheism is a destructive and hateful. It’s indoctrination, and make people worse than they would be without monotheism. Without monotheism, we would already have our gay luxury space communism.
I know more about Christianity than you do, you’re just scared to accept Criticism_of_monotheism.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_monotheism
Was this a competition? I wasn’t aware. Congrats, you won!
So now you are going to be making two arguments:
I added this comment as an edit to the earlier reply but it was so much later O thought yo write this as a specific comment as well. Edit dammit, sorry I forgot to add the part I meant to write about how being trans and Christian on a practical level is completely different and mostly up to the people in any given local religious community. ideologically it doesn’t fit but if you’re trans and are asking whether other Christians can accept you? Yes, ofc they can. Christians are great at hypocrisy.
No, it’s not a competition, but you implied that because you identify as a Christian and I no longer do, that you’re in some sort of position of authority over it. (“If that’s your only idea of Christianity” you said after tossing out some wild strawman I had nothing to do with.)
Oh you’re making demands of my belief system, when this thread is about whether Christianity is compatible with being trans? No Christianity, a dogmatic religion with Old Testament in its scripture is not compatible with being trans on an ideological level.
One is a hateful ideology that hates anything different. And one is just existing as a trans person. There’s no “trans ideology” that is being tested against it, but you’re asking as if there were, since the ideology that Christianity has to fight is progressiveness; “being woke”, as the kids say. The very thing that Star Trek enshrines.
What’s atheists have to do with this? I’m not an atheist, as I’ve told you.
And no, I won’t be hopping to your demands. You’ve answered none of my questions or explained your views even when I asked nicely. You simply ignore facts about Christianity, literally, and say “well that’s no longer the case” “you don’t actually have to believe in this sort of thing”.
You made a point about a gay man going to an imam. Don’t you think that with how large Muslim society is globally that there’s literally millions of LGTBQ+ youths who are battling against their even more dogmatic religion? Don’t you think it’d be kind of the same thing for a man to be gay and still defend Islam, as if you are (I’m not assuming anything and hopefully haven’t at any point) trans and defend Christianity?
Why is it different to be a gay man and defend Islam, than being trans and defending Christianity?
What “status” are you talking about? You do know why the nowadays politically incorrect phrase “dark ages” existed, right? Europe had the dark ages while Asia was bloomimg. First universities were Islamic.
Hell, Christianity got rid of Europe’s smartest. And forced it’s dogma down everyone’s throats for a few thousand years. Christianity came out on top because it was the least accepting and most punishing.
The amount of progressive sociological concepts that Christianity put down in just ancient Norse religion is massive. Greece too.
Do you think a gay man would have had trouble living 2500 years ago in Greece? No. Absolutely none. What about after Christianity took over…?
Edit dammit, sorry I forgot to add the part I meant to write about how being trans and Christian on a practical level is completely different and mostly up to the people in any given local religious community. ideologically it doesn’t fit but if you’re trans and are asking whether other Christians can accept you? Yes, ofc they can. Christians are great at hypocrisy.
No, no, no… I’ve been trying like crazy to explain that “what I identify with” is completely irrelevant!
What I am arguing here:
Things evolve, necessarily. Anyone trying to insist things not evolve is gonna have a hard life.
So you’re arguing that Christianity has evolved out of it’s core tenets?
I’m sorry, but monotheism is dogmatic. Another word that’s sure to ring a bell, but you seem to have missed the meaning of it.
Christianity is a dogmatic religion. Google the sentence if it doesn’t make sense otherwise. Or more specifically, it contain dogma.
Excellent movie btw, for Christians or non-Christians, all alike. Full movie on YouTube completely for free and good quality https://youtu.be/XlIORIds1xc
No I’m saying the council messed it up and we can do better. It was a great movie.
What council, messed what up?