He turned fishermen into scholars and philosophers and theologians. Their lives were radically transformed
I’m not sure you get this. This is like Donald Trump waking up one day, disbanding ICE, apologizing for his actions, turning himself in for those crimes and putting welfare above warfare.
Alright
If Jesus and his followers were lying, James and Paul would’ve been the PERFECT semi-biased-against-them investigators. But they investigated and converted.
If it was a hallucination, why would his tomb be empty and james and paul converted after investigation?
No, it is not. The fact is that they made a claim. What they claimed is evidently not factual.
He turned fishermen into scholars and philosophers and theologians. Their lives were radically transformed
They followed a cult leader and got themselves killed for false beliefs. You think that’s a good outcome?
I’m not sure you get this. This is like Donald Trump waking up one day, disbanding ICE, apologizing for his actions, turning himself in for those crimes and putting welfare above warfare.
I’m not sure you get this. It doesn’t matter how much people like a guy, that doesn’t make him correct.
If Jesus and his followers were lying, James and Paul would’ve been the PERFECT semi-biased-against-them investigators. But they investigated and converted.
They were fooled like the others. Jesus’s message was hypocritical, dangerous, and stupid, but he was evidently very persuasive.
If it was a hallucination, why would his tomb be empty and james and paul converted after investigation?
These are three separate things.
The tomb may not have been empty at all, we cannot verify historically. But if it was, I find it more likely that someone took the body than that a dead man came back to life after so much time.
Hallucinations may happen independently of whether the tomb was empty or not. Believers may have imagined Jesus, or dreamed about him, or hallucinated while on some kind of drug. It’s also possible look-alikes claimed to be him, or (unlikely) Jesus faked his own death and appeared to them himself. It’s also possible the claims are simply false, we have no way of verifying. I find all of these explanations more likely than a miraculous resurrection.
As for James and Paul, it only shows that they were convinced, not that the resurrection was true. And how do we know Jesus appeared to James? Because Paul said so? It’s also worth noting that Paul’s teachings deviate from and conflict with Jesus’s. Whatever he saw, it likely was not the same character we read about in the gospels.
James and Paul were basically skipping to get a CHANCE at disproving Christianity and they converted after investigating
His message was not even one of those things except dangerous (to the pharisees and rome). James and Paul converted after Jesus had been crucified, so how could they be convinced unless the risen Jesus came to them?
According to you. That’s why I said “evidently”. There is no evidence for those claims.
James and Paul were basically skipping to get a CHANCE at disproving Christianity and they converted after investigating
They were lied to like everyone else.
His message was not even one of those things except dangerous (to the pharisees and rome). James and Paul converted after Jesus had been crucified, so how could they be convinced unless the risen Jesus came to them?
Seizures. Liars. Some guy could have shown up and said “it’s me, the risen Jesus. Here’s how you can serve me going forward.”
It is a dangerous message to all life because it is untrue. It’s a death cult.
500 people hallucinated the same thing at once?
No. We don’t have 500 eyewitness accounts. We have one guy (who made have had a medical problem) claiming there were 500 eyewitnesses. We don’t even have James’s account of seeing Jesus, do we?
So someone that looked identical to Jesus, with two men wearing pearly white sitting in his tomb and saying “he is not here, he is risen”
and why would Christ himself, if he was speaking falsehood, not say “I’m not God” before the pharisees and be pardoned? Why was he actually willing to endure inhumane torture instead of copping out?
alright
This is a fact
He turned fishermen into scholars and philosophers and theologians. Their lives were radically transformed
I’m not sure you get this. This is like Donald Trump waking up one day, disbanding ICE, apologizing for his actions, turning himself in for those crimes and putting welfare above warfare.
Alright
If Jesus and his followers were lying, James and Paul would’ve been the PERFECT semi-biased-against-them investigators. But they investigated and converted.
If it was a hallucination, why would his tomb be empty and james and paul converted after investigation?
No, it is not. The fact is that they made a claim. What they claimed is evidently not factual.
They followed a cult leader and got themselves killed for false beliefs. You think that’s a good outcome?
I’m not sure you get this. It doesn’t matter how much people like a guy, that doesn’t make him correct.
They were fooled like the others. Jesus’s message was hypocritical, dangerous, and stupid, but he was evidently very persuasive.
These are three separate things.
The tomb may not have been empty at all, we cannot verify historically. But if it was, I find it more likely that someone took the body than that a dead man came back to life after so much time.
Hallucinations may happen independently of whether the tomb was empty or not. Believers may have imagined Jesus, or dreamed about him, or hallucinated while on some kind of drug. It’s also possible look-alikes claimed to be him, or (unlikely) Jesus faked his own death and appeared to them himself. It’s also possible the claims are simply false, we have no way of verifying. I find all of these explanations more likely than a miraculous resurrection.
As for James and Paul, it only shows that they were convinced, not that the resurrection was true. And how do we know Jesus appeared to James? Because Paul said so? It’s also worth noting that Paul’s teachings deviate from and conflict with Jesus’s. Whatever he saw, it likely was not the same character we read about in the gospels.
Paul’s experience may be consistent with symptoms of temporal lobe epilepsy: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC1032067/
Their beliefs were not false.
James and Paul were basically skipping to get a CHANCE at disproving Christianity and they converted after investigating
His message was not even one of those things except dangerous (to the pharisees and rome). James and Paul converted after Jesus had been crucified, so how could they be convinced unless the risen Jesus came to them?
500 people hallucinated the same thing at once?
According to you. That’s why I said “evidently”. There is no evidence for those claims.
They were lied to like everyone else.
Seizures. Liars. Some guy could have shown up and said “it’s me, the risen Jesus. Here’s how you can serve me going forward.”
It is a dangerous message to all life because it is untrue. It’s a death cult.
No. We don’t have 500 eyewitness accounts. We have one guy (who made have had a medical problem) claiming there were 500 eyewitnesses. We don’t even have James’s account of seeing Jesus, do we?
and why would Christ himself, if he was speaking falsehood, not say “I’m not God” before the pharisees and be pardoned? Why was he actually willing to endure inhumane torture instead of copping out?
Magic isn’t real, dumbass dipshit.
Source for literally any miracle?
Source for literally any god?
Fucking none. Real people die for your false beliefs. FUCKFACE.
Maybe, or just close enough, or Paul imagined it, or Paul made it up.
Zero evidence that this took place.
Fuckface: by proclaiming himself christ, he is speaking falsehood. But he might not realize that he is lying because he’s fucking delusional.
He was either huffing his own farts or trolling.
Because he’s an idiot who didn’t think it would go that far.
Why did he say, “my god, why have you forsaken me” if it was part of his plan and also he was god?
No we don’t. We have Paul claiming there were 500 witnesses. Can you name 499 more?