The sane Americans here are saying, “Hey, we’re your allies in this, we are trying to help,” and you’re literally saying, “No, you’re the enemy.” This is basically moral reasoning on the level of “my daughter crashed the car so I’m going to hit my son with a baseball bat.” It’s too much work on your part to distinguish between innocent and guilty? That’s some very firm moral high ground you’re lobbing spears from.
Not only is that nonsensical from a moral standpoint, but it’s terrible strategic thinking. You just prefer it if we’re all to be enemies? You’re asking both you (who is allegedly so infuriated because you are demanding a solution) and us (the people best positioned to try to help solve this) to waste our time fighting amongst each other. Great idea.
But to be clear, I understand when you spew hatred like this, you’re not thinking. You’re lashing out emotionally because you’re upset. Now the question is, will you acknowledge this, or will you respond by increasing the volume and digging in deeper?
Every time I see this argument I’m reminded of Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. If “trying to help” is limited to thoughts and prayers online, it isn’t help, it’s just masturbation.
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.” Shallow understanding from people of good will is more frustrating than absolute misunderstanding from people of ill will. Lukewarm acceptance is much more bewildering than outright rejection.
I understand it may remind you of that, but it’s not an apt comparison.
I’ve been advocating direct non-violent action here like MLK was doing (and, reminder, I assume non-violent protest won’t satisfy the angry non-Americans here who are telling us to “arm up”). I don’t think anyone is advocating for “wait[ing] for a more convenient season” - we know fascism is here, but the question is what is the move that (a) doesn’t cause it to dig in deeper like a tick, and (b) maximizes the good that we pay for with the risk to ourselves and others.
And yes, we’re all talking online, that’s what Lemmy is. I have called what I am doing “therapy” which I would suggest it in fact is, rather than “masturbation.” Living in the US and not being MAGA right now feels like being a battered family member, but usually participating here at least reminds me of sanity. (Though maybe not when we’re being told we’re awful because our abuser made a mess while they were abusing us.) I come here to vent and commiserate - that’s not mutually exclusive from taking action.
I wake up and go to sleep (very poorly) fighting learned helplessness and awful emotions because I see the same headlines we all do here, and whatever the world feels seeing it, it’s happening here to us first.
I’m not asking to be a victim, not that anyone is offering any empathy to non-Trump Americans in this thread. I’m just saying, hey, maybe those of us in the US who are doing what we rationally can to stop Trump don’t need another abuser? I guess that’s my message for comrade_twisty and others gleefully (but definitely not masturbatorily!) piling on the “all Americans can fuck themselves” bandwagon.
Not to dogpile you too much here - I understand this is difficult - but part of the problem is framing this as a Trump issue. It really isn’t. Even with all this insanity, he still enjoys a 40% approval rating! This doesn’t end only by cutting off MAGA’s head, ahtough that would help - it also means salting the earth where it grows by finally eradicating the christofascist, patriarchal, racist current in the population that has been there since the country’s founding and before. That fight is just as important as going to DC and [REDACTED].
I have no idea why people are just taking those numbers at face value.
Any Americans in this thread, have any of you ever been polled about anything regarding any of this? I know I sure haven’t. I wish they would poll me, I got an awful lot of opinions for these mfers.
Trump and his associated hangers-on have a long and storied history of pulling numbers directly out of their asses. It perplexes me that anyone takes anything the government says right now at face value.
That 40% is what makes me think a 2nd American Civil War is needed. The festering wound that is the Confederacy still lingers in America, and needs to be cleaned with a thorough Reconstruction.
I get it. But just like the UK isn’t Boris Johnson, China isn’t Xi Jinping, and Italy isn’t Giorgia Meloni, no country is going to show the reality and complexity from headlines generated by a handful of people.
What is happening here seems to be everyone taking out their frustrations on the exact people most likely to help.
I wholeheartedly applaud and support them! They’re absolutely not the ones I’m referring to. Those I take issue with are the ones who do nothing but seek a pat on the head for being “one of the good ones”. I don’t care that you voted for Kamala or repost every Occupy Democrats meme you see. I care about praxis.
The sane Americans here are saying, “Hey, we’re your allies in this, we are trying to help,” and you’re literally saying, “No, you’re the enemy.” This is basically moral reasoning on the level of “my daughter crashed the car so I’m going to hit my son with a baseball bat.” It’s too much work on your part to distinguish between innocent and guilty? That’s some very firm moral high ground you’re lobbing spears from.
Not only is that nonsensical from a moral standpoint, but it’s terrible strategic thinking. You just prefer it if we’re all to be enemies? You’re asking both you (who is allegedly so infuriated because you are demanding a solution) and us (the people best positioned to try to help solve this) to waste our time fighting amongst each other. Great idea.
But to be clear, I understand when you spew hatred like this, you’re not thinking. You’re lashing out emotionally because you’re upset. Now the question is, will you acknowledge this, or will you respond by increasing the volume and digging in deeper?
Every time I see this argument I’m reminded of Martin Luther King’s Letter from a Birmingham Jail. If “trying to help” is limited to thoughts and prayers online, it isn’t help, it’s just masturbation.
I understand it may remind you of that, but it’s not an apt comparison.
I’ve been advocating direct non-violent action here like MLK was doing (and, reminder, I assume non-violent protest won’t satisfy the angry non-Americans here who are telling us to “arm up”). I don’t think anyone is advocating for “wait[ing] for a more convenient season” - we know fascism is here, but the question is what is the move that (a) doesn’t cause it to dig in deeper like a tick, and (b) maximizes the good that we pay for with the risk to ourselves and others.
And yes, we’re all talking online, that’s what Lemmy is. I have called what I am doing “therapy” which I would suggest it in fact is, rather than “masturbation.” Living in the US and not being MAGA right now feels like being a battered family member, but usually participating here at least reminds me of sanity. (Though maybe not when we’re being told we’re awful because our abuser made a mess while they were abusing us.) I come here to vent and commiserate - that’s not mutually exclusive from taking action.
I wake up and go to sleep (very poorly) fighting learned helplessness and awful emotions because I see the same headlines we all do here, and whatever the world feels seeing it, it’s happening here to us first.
I’m not asking to be a victim, not that anyone is offering any empathy to non-Trump Americans in this thread. I’m just saying, hey, maybe those of us in the US who are doing what we rationally can to stop Trump don’t need another abuser? I guess that’s my message for comrade_twisty and others gleefully (but definitely not masturbatorily!) piling on the “all Americans can fuck themselves” bandwagon.
Not to dogpile you too much here - I understand this is difficult - but part of the problem is framing this as a Trump issue. It really isn’t. Even with all this insanity, he still enjoys a 40% approval rating! This doesn’t end only by cutting off MAGA’s head, ahtough that would help - it also means salting the earth where it grows by finally eradicating the christofascist, patriarchal, racist current in the population that has been there since the country’s founding and before. That fight is just as important as going to DC and [REDACTED].
The fact that his approval rating is FORTY FUCKING PERCENT is absolutely crazy. Makes me so sad for my fellow human.
I have no idea why people are just taking those numbers at face value.
Any Americans in this thread, have any of you ever been polled about anything regarding any of this? I know I sure haven’t. I wish they would poll me, I got an awful lot of opinions for these mfers.
Trump and his associated hangers-on have a long and storied history of pulling numbers directly out of their asses. It perplexes me that anyone takes anything the government says right now at face value.
That 40% is what makes me think a 2nd American Civil War is needed. The festering wound that is the Confederacy still lingers in America, and needs to be cleaned with a thorough Reconstruction.
Yes, that’s by far the most troubling part of all this - that 150 million Americans are on board with it.
Great, I agree with everything you just said. Constructive discussion! I’d like for that to be what we spend our energy on.
Unfortunately we outside the US see mostly impotent hand-wringing coming from there. That’s why we’re so frustrated.
I get it. But just like the UK isn’t Boris Johnson, China isn’t Xi Jinping, and Italy isn’t Giorgia Meloni, no country is going to show the reality and complexity from headlines generated by a handful of people.
What is happening here seems to be everyone taking out their frustrations on the exact people most likely to help.
What about the Americans how are standing up and doing something and not sitting back.
I wholeheartedly applaud and support them! They’re absolutely not the ones I’m referring to. Those I take issue with are the ones who do nothing but seek a pat on the head for being “one of the good ones”. I don’t care that you voted for Kamala or repost every Occupy Democrats meme you see. I care about praxis.