Independent Persian has received messages from protestors within Iran via Starlink satellite that describe a ‘war-like situation’. Amirhossein Miresmaeili reports
For a lot of people on here, tankies especially, anyone that opposes the West is incapable of doing harm and must be defended at all costs. Human rights abuses are ignored so long as they can go “west bad”. Like, yes, the West is indeed bad. That doesn’t excuse the awful actions of the regimes that oppose them nor make it okay.
very convenient to label anyone as tankie who is against liberal zionists.
No is excusing wrong doings of the iranian govt, however we need to be real here, western regime changes have never been good and particularly how this is openly israel backed is even more problematic. Not to forget govt still has support in iran and in case of regime change it would lead to catastrophic civil war - surely that wont liberate women.
I dont support religious theocracy but we need to deal with reality, what happened to the “lesser of two evils” you liberals yap about all the time?
Yes. Supporting the government is in reality opposing Zionism. I know it’s hard logic, but bear with me.
There is no alternative to the current government of Iran that is capable of organizing the military to defend against the US and Israel.
If the current government were to fall, the military would have a two-way fight that they would need to navigate, splitting their focus and creating mass paranoia.
It would be almost impossible to tell the difference between a legit revolution and a CIA color revolution, of which we have documented evidence.
So, if you oppose Zionism you must support the Iranian government, and if you support the Iranian people overthrowing their government TODAY then you support Zionism.
But you can be smarter than that and be like the rest of us who want the Iranian people to overthrow their government and since we want that the only way we can support them is by ending the threats from Israel and the US and Britain. If we can end the threats, then the Iranian people will have the safety to manage their own affairs.
Today, they are under siege and must not lose at all costs.
I say if Iranian people want to overthrow the current system then I’m all for it, rooting for the status quo against their will “for the greater good” sounds fucked up to me. Iranian people should be the one deciding the outcome here.
It’s not possible for the people of Iran to decide the outcome. That’s what you’re ignoring. If Iran was completely disconnected from this plane of existence, sure, do it.
But Mossad is literally operating inside Iran and has been for years. During the attempted decapitation attack last year, when Israel shot missiles from fighter jets into apartments of top scientists and politicians, it was also discovered that Mossad was operating entire buildings as forward bases, with large amounts of drones, munitions, and recon capabilities.
Yes, it would be great for the people of Iran to decide, but it would require them to weaken the control and capabilities of the state, which woul guarantee Israeli and US involvement immediately.
The reason the Iranian people are not able to change their government is because they are under siege.
Iranian people are opposing the current government and Israel and US are benefiting from that, it doesn’t mean the Iranese will doesn’t exist or that they’re somehow subjugated or acting in orders by Israel and US. Suggesting that is frankly a bit offensive towards those protesting.
If you’re looking for some pure revolution where there aren’t any outside forces supporting the revolutionaries or benefiting from their actions, I don’t think such revolution has happened in modern times.
That’s not the point at all. The Iranian people obviously have grievances. They have obviously protested before.
The point I am making is that it’s literally not possible for the Iranian masses to defend themselves against Israel and the US if they undermine their government’s security forces. The will of the people will be subjugated and instead of the Iranian people deciding how to run their country, the US will be deciding, just like last time when the US coup’ed Iran and determined how they would run the country.
The argument is not and has never been that each protestor is delusional and doesn’t have real grievance and is instead brainwashed and controlled by Israel. The argument is that attempting to overthrow the Iranian government does NOT lead to national self determination but will lead to national subjugation by the US.
I’d say let Iranian people decide if they want to go for it or not, instead of supporting a brutal theocracy because you feel like it’s for the “greater good”. If Iranians want to go for it, I support it.
I mean we’ll see if they manage to overthrow it or not. If enough people there want it, even the brutal tactics of the current government aren’t enough to stop it.
For a lot of people on here, tankies especially, anyone that opposes the West is incapable of doing harm and must be defended at all costs. Human rights abuses are ignored so long as they can go “west bad”. Like, yes, the West is indeed bad. That doesn’t excuse the awful actions of the regimes that oppose them nor make it okay.
You’re forgetting that nuance is forbidden. Anyone with a nuanced point of view is obviously a fascist sympathizer /s
Just kidding, fascists and tankies alike have no concept of nuance. They’re cut from the same cloth…
From where I’m sitting, pretty much everyone in power is fucked.
Power corrupts, absolute power corrupts absolutely. A tale as old as humanity itself.
Similarly, money is not the root of evil. Desire to get it no matter what, is.
Power and authority are the big root problems
very convenient to label anyone as tankie who is against liberal zionists. No is excusing wrong doings of the iranian govt, however we need to be real here, western regime changes have never been good and particularly how this is openly israel backed is even more problematic. Not to forget govt still has support in iran and in case of regime change it would lead to catastrophic civil war - surely that wont liberate women. I dont support religious theocracy but we need to deal with reality, what happened to the “lesser of two evils” you liberals yap about all the time?
Wait didn’t we get women’s rights in Afghanistan after bombing them for 20 years? Ah nevermind, I already moved on to the next big issue.
It sounds like you are against the protesters, which in reality is supporting the government…
I’m not against the protests, but I am 100% against the installation of a puppet shah through US/Israeli interference and intervention.
There’s no good outcome here?
That sounds dismissive of the actual people protesting there and sounds like they don’t have any say on the matter
Yes. Supporting the government is in reality opposing Zionism. I know it’s hard logic, but bear with me.
There is no alternative to the current government of Iran that is capable of organizing the military to defend against the US and Israel.
If the current government were to fall, the military would have a two-way fight that they would need to navigate, splitting their focus and creating mass paranoia.
It would be almost impossible to tell the difference between a legit revolution and a CIA color revolution, of which we have documented evidence.
So, if you oppose Zionism you must support the Iranian government, and if you support the Iranian people overthrowing their government TODAY then you support Zionism.
But you can be smarter than that and be like the rest of us who want the Iranian people to overthrow their government and since we want that the only way we can support them is by ending the threats from Israel and the US and Britain. If we can end the threats, then the Iranian people will have the safety to manage their own affairs.
Today, they are under siege and must not lose at all costs.
I say if Iranian people want to overthrow the current system then I’m all for it, rooting for the status quo against their will “for the greater good” sounds fucked up to me. Iranian people should be the one deciding the outcome here.
It’s not possible for the people of Iran to decide the outcome. That’s what you’re ignoring. If Iran was completely disconnected from this plane of existence, sure, do it.
But Mossad is literally operating inside Iran and has been for years. During the attempted decapitation attack last year, when Israel shot missiles from fighter jets into apartments of top scientists and politicians, it was also discovered that Mossad was operating entire buildings as forward bases, with large amounts of drones, munitions, and recon capabilities.
Yes, it would be great for the people of Iran to decide, but it would require them to weaken the control and capabilities of the state, which woul guarantee Israeli and US involvement immediately.
The reason the Iranian people are not able to change their government is because they are under siege.
Iranian people are opposing the current government and Israel and US are benefiting from that, it doesn’t mean the Iranese will doesn’t exist or that they’re somehow subjugated or acting in orders by Israel and US. Suggesting that is frankly a bit offensive towards those protesting.
If you’re looking for some pure revolution where there aren’t any outside forces supporting the revolutionaries or benefiting from their actions, I don’t think such revolution has happened in modern times.
That’s not the point at all. The Iranian people obviously have grievances. They have obviously protested before.
The point I am making is that it’s literally not possible for the Iranian masses to defend themselves against Israel and the US if they undermine their government’s security forces. The will of the people will be subjugated and instead of the Iranian people deciding how to run their country, the US will be deciding, just like last time when the US coup’ed Iran and determined how they would run the country.
The argument is not and has never been that each protestor is delusional and doesn’t have real grievance and is instead brainwashed and controlled by Israel. The argument is that attempting to overthrow the Iranian government does NOT lead to national self determination but will lead to national subjugation by the US.
I’d say let Iranian people decide if they want to go for it or not, instead of supporting a brutal theocracy because you feel like it’s for the “greater good”. If Iranians want to go for it, I support it.
Each one if us want that, but at this moment it is not likely
I mean we’ll see if they manage to overthrow it or not. If enough people there want it, even the brutal tactics of the current government aren’t enough to stop it.