What’s up with this straight up pro-china and pro-russia stuff on Lemmy lately?
It’s not even praising the people of China and Russia, but rather their gov directly.
Obviously the states have problems, and the EU to a lesser degree, but they at least have some human rights.
Is this some kind of organized disinformation campaign?
🌍🧑🚀🔫🧑🚀 Always has been. https://en.prolewiki.org/wiki/Lemmy#History
The EU is sometimes worse than China and some parts of the US are often worse than Russia. The US (both parties) and the EU have been aiding & abetting a genocide in Palestine.
It’s not organized and it’s not disinformation. Those are coming from inside the house.
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Nevermind the rate at which that proportion is shrinking.
Just don’t count anyone outside the empire as human and your argument makes sense.
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This is the recent one from the UK. It can be done for all 26 others easily too.
Because people in Africa and the Middle East aren’t still being colonized by the West?
Pray tell what happened to Jullian Assange? Why the entire Western media gleefully ignoring the genocide in Gaza? Propaganda on Western levels is unheard of worldwide.
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You are misinformed. There hasn’t been a large Jewish population in Germany since the Holocaust, and attributing Germany’s support for Israel to an imagined one sounds, frankly, a bit antisemitic.
There are many EU countries with more Jews per capita than Germany. Less than 0.2% of Germany’s population is Jewish, and less than 1% of Jews in the world live in Germany. 60% of Jews in Germany live in a single city (Berlin). Over 80% speak Russian, having immigrated there from former soviet states.
German politicians often say that, due to the Holocaust, support for Israel’s security is part of Germany’s “reason of state”; they tend to avoid discussing the Zionist view that Jews choosing to live in Germany today should also really move to Israel.
Man, you sure love going “yes that’s true and I have no counter point, but I’m going to declare that it doesn’t count”
What do you believe the current death count in Gaza is?
So the EU obeys the US which is authoritarian?
https://lemmy.ml/c/ManufacturingConsent
Pray tell if you believe Hamas raped anyone on October 7 by the way.
Sib, you’re gonna need to sit down before I tell you this…
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You know, the argument of “they aren’t repressive, so long as you just ignore all the ways that they are!” applies just as much to China. You’re purely begging the question. I like that you even got it wrong which fucking country it was.
Previously:
Previously:
Repression, criticism, and situations? Telling choice of words.
The crimes of the US/European empires - both historial and ongoing - are unparalleled… To reduce them to those terms you would be doing genocide denial.
China making the BBC slightly more inconvenient to access is far worse than exterminating an entire continent of people in a centuries long colonial project.
Making TERF island’s transphobic brainworm journalism less accessible:
Wikipedia is not a source.
“While it’s true that EU has and continues to do things far worse than anything China has done, how can you possibly say that the EU is sometimes worse than China!”
Its impossible to read this without coming to conclusion that you fundamentally don’t consider non-westerners human, except when they can be used as a cudgel against their enemies. Imagine trying to claim that we should consider China’s treatment of Muslims worse than the countries currently engaging in a modern Holocaust against Muslims.
And Tiananmen Square was forty years ago. If you actually listened all of the things that the EU has done since then that were as bad or worse, you would be writing a novel. You would need to have a Tiananmen square massacre every day for a decade just to equal the amount of people the West killed in Iraq alone.
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What a fucking vile thing to say. In over a decade of genocide accusations against China, The West hasn’t been able to produce a single example of even one Uyghur being killed, even though Xinjiang is perfectly accessible and anyone can go there to find perfectly normal cities. Even Wikipedia had to rename it’s “Uyghur Genocide” page because they couldn’t actually find enough evidence.
Meanwhile, Gaza is a closed off death camp where journalists are being shot on sight, with the full support of both the institutions and individuals who are making the Uyghur genocide accusations in the first place. None the less, we see daily videos of mass death, with even western estimates for total dead in the hundreds of thousands after less than two years.
You don’t care about Muslim lives, they are not human to you, you only care about them as a cudgel against the West’s enemies. This is made undeniably clear by the fact that you try to claim China killing zero Muslims in “definitely worse” than the West (and it is the whole West) exterminating an entire nation of two million people.
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Yeah, how dare those tankies value the lives of non-westerners as if they were human
Oh so you’re valuing the lives of the Uyghurs and other minorities in concentration camps. You’re really valuing the millions of Russian soldiers that die fighting a war of aggression. You value so highly all the innocent people in Gulags which are basically concentration camps too. I see now how highly you value those people, my bad.
the gulag system ended in 1960. you know less than your average street dog.
lol, ”millions of Russian soldiers”, the entire personnel of the Russian military is about two million people, do you think they sent literally every single soldier in the Russian military to Ukraine? Gulags? What the fuck are you talking about, is everything you know about Russia from Cold War era propaganda?
I conceded that millions was indeed an exaggeration. If you don’t know what Gulags are or doubt their existence, I guess it’s clear everything you know about Russia is from its current state propaganda.
You mean a lie, you conceded that it was a lie.
Where the fuck did you get your information from?
I did not, a lie is intentional.
School, you should try it.
The USSR did have prisons, yes. I don’t think that’s out of the ordinary for a state to have. Secondly, and you don’t seem to get this, the USSR is dead and gone, as much as we all would rather have it here with us today (though KPRF membership is skyrocketing and trends do seem in favor of at least Russia turning back to socialism).
Ah yes, prisons, just normal, civilised prisons. Just like Guantanmo is a normal prison, right? And of course, they don’t exist in Russia today anymore, where did Navalny die again?
I know gulags existed like 70 years ago, you seem to think they still exist.
They do, just because they’re called differently now, doesn’t mean they disappeared. If you call yourself a leftist instead of tankie, doesn’t mean you’re not a tankie anymore.
In over a decade of genocide accusations against China, The West hasn’t been able to produce a single example of even one Uyghur being killed, even though Xinjiang is perfectly accessible and anyone can go there to find perfectly normal cities. Even Wikipedia had to rename it’s “Uyghur Genocide” page because they couldn’t actually find enough evidence.
Meanwhile, Gaza is a closed off death camp where journalists are being shot on sight, with the full support of both the institutions and individuals who are making the Uyghur genocide accusations in the first place. None the less, we see daily videos of mass death, with even western estimates for total dead in the hundreds of thousands after less than two years.
You don’t care about Muslim lives, they are not human to you, you only care about them as a cudgel against the West’s enemies. This is made undeniably clear by the fact that you try to claim China killing zero Muslims is comparable to the West exterminating an entire nation.
Millions? You’re just pulling make believe numbers out of your ass now, unlike the actually confirmed millions killed in Western Wars of aggression. And it’s because non-western lives aren’t actually real to you; thousands, millions, tens of millions, whatever - it’s all just fictional to you, like the size of armies in fantasy books.
What the fuck are you talking about? Please tell me you’re not trying to have a take on this while being so monumentally ignorant of even the most basic facts of the matter.
What’s happening to them is worse than getting killed.
Ok, you’re completely delusional, should have figured from the start. Please watch some footage of journalists that actually went there.
All your blathering about Palestine is nice whataboutism, but nothing more. I’m strongly opposed to the Israeli government as well, not that it matters in this discussion. It’s possible to have a more nuanced view than “east good, west bad” even though that might be too difficult for you to comprehend.
Millions is probably incorrect indeed, the estimate is over 1 million. What does it matter though? The one who doesn’t seem to care about their lives (apart from Putin, obviously) is you, because every single one is one too many.
I’m talking about innocent people being held in Gulags and in many cases dying there. Reading comprehension is difficult for you it seems. I’m curious though, do you think Gulags are not real or that only guilty people are sent there? Even if they were guilty, do you think a civilised nation should have concentration camps?
Nice deflection. “Nobody has been killed in Xinjiang. - Well, ackhually that’s because what’s happening is even worse than death!” Like what? Uhhh, stuff I guess.
What a vile little worm you are. And of course, because you don’t actually consider them human, you don’t care if they actually agree with this; you’re not actually going to try present the argument that the Uyghurs themselves would, if you went to Xinjiang and asked them, would prefer to be in Gaza. You’re just going to make the declaration for them, because you need to to excuse the holocaust going on in Gaza.
Please, present this footage that shows that the people of Xinjiang are worse off than the people in Gaza…
You can’t actually defend the idea that the West’s crimes aren’t as bad as China, so you’re just going to declare that it’s “not allowed” to even mention the West’s crimes. Even you realise your position is untenable if people actually bring up counter points, so you’re going to pretend that some how it’s “cheating” for them to do so.
Of course it fucking matters. What the fuck are you on about?
You’re just assuming that, because you are only capable of seeing it in terms of Good Guys and Bad Guys, then I must be too, just in the other direction. This is a lazy strawman doesn’t actually follow from anything that was said.
Not incorrect: a lie that you told.
“The estimate”? From who?
Yeah, what does it matter? It’s not like theyre real humans with lives or anything. because non-western lives aren’t actually real to you; thousands, millions, tens of millions, whatever - it’s all just fictional to you, like the size of armies in fantasy books.
Tell me again how every Muslim in Xinjiang would be better off dead, how the genocide in Gaza is just prattle and whataboutism, and how numbers of dead don’t matter. Funny how “every single one is to many” doesn’t apply to the West, they can kill by the million and you’ll forgive them.
Oh my God… Please tell me this is a bit.
nice projection
What? Please try to write properly, your sentences are barely decipherable. No one has said anything about Xinjiang concentration camps being better or worse than Gaza.
Again, no one has claimed that. What are you talking about?
I’m not assuming anything, I based this on what you said. Whereas I have clearly expressed a more nuanced view, thus you’re, again, not making any sense.
I did not say that, although I know for a fact that some of the kidnapped and incarcerated people that are not allowed to see their family and to speak their language would rather be dead.
I never said that, do you know what whataboutism is?
They matter to me, but clearly not to you.
Honestly, this is the last time I reply to you if you keep making shit up. Every single person killed is one too many, it does not matter who does the killing. Is that clear enough for you?
question, why do you think the rest of us should believe the work of the German guy ‘on a mission from god’ against China and communism when he doesn’t even speak the language.
also why can’t they find another person to research this if it’s really as serious as you say lmao
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I don’t even know who you’re talking about. There is footage of many journalists that went there and filmed with hidden cameras, also Chinese speaking ones.
You are a diseased person in mind and soul.
Even the most damning, counterfactual, and unsupported claims about China’s treatment of Uyghurs in Xinjiang are nothing more than a fraction of the verifiable, livestreamed barbarism that US/israel have been unleashing on Palestinians in Gaza for decades.
You were better off not responding lol
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I don’t block anyone, there needs to be a voice of reason countering these misguided soulds, so thanks for doing your part.
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In our view it’s not that western liberals are victims of propaganda, but that propaganda grants them permission to be continue being ignorant:
From the essay Masses, Elites and Rebels: the Theory of “Brainwashing”
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No, this is just untrue for both accounts.
The PRC and RF have largely been peaceful over the last few decades, the most notable exception being, of course, the Russo-Ukrainian War. On the other hand, the West has been on an extermination campaign of genocide in Palestine, destroyed Iraq, bombed Iran, destroyed Afghanistan, supported coups all over South America and Africa, and much, much more. If you extend beyond a few decadea you also can include the attempted genocide of Korea and Vietnam.
Not only is quality of life in the PRC higher than some EU states as well as US, the EU and US both enjoy the quality of life they do because of imperialism. That’s like pointing to a landlord and saying they have a higher quality of life than their tenant, and using that as a point in favor of the landlord and against the tenant. Imperialism is the reason why the Global North consumes far more of production than it creates, and what drives the Global North to sanction, coup, invade, destroy, and genocide the Global South.
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I extended beyond the last 2 decades, I just kept it to 2 decades initially because it’s the most relevant for our discussion. The PRC has not “gone to war” with pretty much everyone around them, with the exception of Vietnam, in the last 50 years. They do not support terrorist groups, and they have not slaughtered millions of their own people. They do not strip their population of basic freedoms, the opposite is true, and they do not force Han supremacy, they have higher rates of minority representation than the west does. They are not imperialist, they do not use financial capital to dominate the global south and expropriate vast amounts of wealth, nor is Chinese culture “soulless.”
Your whole comment is entirely uncited, and veers into being wildly racist by calling Chinese culture soulless.
As for quality of life, I didn’t expect you to go fully mask-off and justify imperialism, but holy shit you just outright called it an “irrelevant excuse.” If I point out that Elon Musk has a better quality of life than I do because of vast amounts of wealth stolen from the working class, that’s somehow irrelevant and Elon is good in your eyes? This is monstrous behavior. Do some self-crit and see how the west plunders the global south.
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Again, everything you listed is uncited, and your claims are racist in nature, like calling Chinese culture “soulless” because it’s now socialist and Mao banned foot-binding. Yes, I do quite like the democracy graph, it shows that the PRC is ahead of the west in democracy. The PRC has done nowhere near the atrocities of the west. It doesn’t imperialize, commit genocide, or otherwise plunder the world for its own benefit.
You have no sources because you’re genuinely a fascist that defends western imperialism unironically.
Wars China has been in, in the last 50 years:
From your own link:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Soviet_border_conflict
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nathu_La_and_Cho_La_clashes
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1960–61_campaign_at_the_China–Burma_border
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Chamdo
Some are outside the 50 year mark by a decade or two but it shows in the last 50 years theyve pretty much attacked every single country around them.
I wish I lived in your world where time is non-linear.
Then don’t include them, you dishonest fuck.
You literally had to include things from outside the time period to pad the numbers and you still only got to five. Now do the US and EUs wars for the same time period.
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No, they come out much worse. Oh right, you don’t consider non-westerners to be human.
Imagine how completely shameless and dishonest to try and make this claim as a contrast to the EU and USA.
And that’s what matters, in the end. Virtue is defined by how much wealth you can extract out of the rest of the world for the benifit of your own country. Wealth is the mark of virtue. Rich countries are good, poor countries are bad.
You have the politics of a nineteenth century Englishman.
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You mean you tried to respond but realized you didn’t actually have anything to respond with, so you’re going to start trolling.
There is nothing of substance to respond to even if I wanted. All you’ve done is disagree and I’m not wasting my time going through history with a bot who thinks tiananmen square was just a man standing in front of a tank or thinks NATO “forced” Russia to invade Ukraine. So yeah, enjoy this thread it was made for you.
There’s plenty of substance, you just can’t actually refute it so you’re going to pretend it’s not there. You’ve already decided as a matter of faith that you are right about anything, so any argument that might suggest otherwise has to be ignored.
Oh, we’re just pulling completely baseless strawmen out of our assholes then? Well why should I waste my time with you when you’re a supporter of Adolf Hitler who thinks the Holocaust was a good thing?
“Never believe that anti-Semites are completely unaware of the absurdity of their replies. They know that their remarks are frivolous, open to challenge. But they are amusing themselves, for it is their adversary who is obliged to use words responsibly, since he believes in words. The anti-Semites have the right to play. They even like to play with discourse for, by giving ridiculous reasons, they discredit the seriousness of their interlocutors. They delight in acting in bad faith, since they seek not to persuade by sound argument but to intimidate and disconcert. If you press them too closely, they will abruptly fall silent, loftily indicating by some phrase that the time for argument is past.”
― Jean-Paul Sartre
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