Do the army support the president even if his orders are against your constitution? How is the overll clima and feeling today?
Just asking because I’m curious, I have no horse in this race :)
Edited to Armed forces since thats exactly what I ment
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If you honestly think they have an issue with following illegal orders, I think you should take a look at The Kent State massacre
The military has done some horrible stuff but going back 50+ years to prove how they feel today seems a stretch.
Even if it was over 50 years ago it was a significant point in history that a lot of people seem to forget, and was a major turning point for the public during Vietnam. It’s also relevant to today with what’s happening.
Yes, but no one serving then is serving now. Leadership has cycled many times. I mean, how far do you take this? Can you use events from 200 years ago to claim how a group thinks?
Also culture has changed, the type of people in the service has changed, so much has changed in 50 years. This is ignoring all nuance.
Ah, so you think learning from history is pointless because it’s not happening here and now, gotcha.
… How dishonest.
Learning from history is one thing. Holding people accountable for the actions of others, from before they were even born, is stupid.
But you knew that. You’re just trolling or hate the military too much to think clearly.
But let’s follow your logic. Let’s take actions of people in the past and apply them now. So, given the holocaust I’m assuming you think all present day Germans hate Jews and want them to die? I mean we need to learn from the past right? Just because it’s not happening here and now you can’t ignore it. Right?
How myopic, asinine, and worst of all, willingly ignorant.
Since you have no regard for learning, enjoy doing everything from scratch.
So just insults. No counter point, no logic. Just yelling that I’m wrong and you’re right? How convincing.
If you had any logic to stand on you’d present it. But you don’t. And you’ll find every excuse not to provide any. You know you’re wrong, you’re just too proud to admit it my guy.
Get literally any soldier who was deployed to iraq or afghanistan drunk and they’ll tell you about unpunished warcrimes they witnessed or participated in.
Fuck off. I have 3 deployments under my belt and 0 war crimes. Some of us are just born poor as fuck and wanted to go to college. The military honestly isn’t some monolithic entity… 90% of the people on this thread literally have never talked to a service member and it shows lol
I have them in my family and have heard their stories. I don’t care what reason you justify joining. You acted as a tool of imperalism against people who did not deserve it.
I guess it’s a good thing I don’t care how you feel about it. I grew up and learned in the military. It shaped me into the man I am and the skills and discipline I learned have done me a world of good. You don’t have to like it but you don’t get to shit on it. You haven’t done anything to earn the right to judge me.
I served in the military. You don’t seem to know much about it.
Literally any soldier? Really? The cooks? The guy at the mechanic shop? Literally any soldier?
Not everyone is going out on patrol. Not every soldier is committing a war crime. I’ve known dozens of people who went over seas and didn’t even see a hint of action. WTF is with these wild assumptions being passed as facts.
Does it happen, for fucking sure. But not at the level you seem to be implying. Not at all. People let their emotions rule over reason way too much.
I feel like you could use critical thinking and assume I’m talking about people who saw action.
Support staff aren’t innocent either to me. They supported the mission and it couldn’t have been done without them.
You said literally any soldier, so maybe say what you mean instead of being hyperbolic and then blaming people for thinking you mean what you actually said. You choose those words. You didn’t even say, “ask any soldier” you really wanted to classify it with “ask literally any soldier”. So if that’s not what you meant, why did you make that absurd claim? I don’t rely on people making assumptions when I present a point. That is wild…
And even then, I know people do have been in action and not witnessed any war crimes. I’ve known lots of these people, across a large sample. You’re in your room making baseless assumptions.
Yah, every guy making sure you get fed really condones war crimes. You lack any sense of nuance or actual understanding.
You’re just throwing out grand, sweeping claims…
Making sure I get fed? What exactly has the military done to secure food security? You’re complaining about hyperbole and make dumbass claims like that lol
They’re not baseless assumptions either. I’m sure your chud friends have seen plenty of horrific shit and they just don’t consider it bad, nor war crimes. I know people that have sniped unarmed civilians in Afghanistan and they considered it a way to alleviate boredom. There’s a couple people in my state that even got convicted of war crimes at Abu gharib but ended up getting set free.
Making sure I get fed? What exactly has the military done to secure food security? You’re complaining about hyperbole and make dumbass claims like that lol
Shoot, my bad. I forgot how easily confused you get. They keep the soldiers fed. I thought that was obvious from context, but I guess back to spoon feeding.
They’re not baseless assumptions either. I’m sure your chud friends have seen plenty of horrific shit and they just don’t consider it bad, nor war crimes.
They’re not baseless? You’re assuming you know my friends better than I do. Friends who were in the military with me, a life you clearly don’t understand or have ever experienced. But you claim with confidence to know what they consider bad? This is baseless by definition. You’re whole stance is based on assumptions.
But prove me wrong, my good friend Sgt Holt, what did he see that was a war crime? I’m curious since you seem to know so well.
I know people that have sniped unarmed civilians in Afghanistan and they considered it a way to alleviate boredom.
Lol first off I call bullshit. A sniper is not setting up a nest then giving away and drawing attention to that nest for no reason. That’s how you eat an RPG. Your basic lack of military knowledge is making your lies transparent AF lol.
There’s a couple people in my state that even got convicted of war crimes
Oh shit! A couple people got convicted of war crimes so every single soldier ever has committed war crimes. You are delusional and not living in reality guy. Do you apply this logic to every group? Because I’m sure you’re part of a group that has had members of that group so horrible things.
What a smart person would do is realize that each person is an individual and not judge an entire, massive group of people based on the actions of some people in that group.
Anyone who answers this question is doing so at risk to their career. I hope they do either way.
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People inside rn be like: “Why are some of these people I’m shooting white??.. Ah well.”
Army or military? There are several branches of the military, Army is just one.
I am recently (last few weeks recent) out of the Navy. Not eoas but I doubt people are interested in the reasons and it would be easy to dox me if I got into details.
Its bad. Most of the people in the navy are more than willing to do whatever they are told. I was a role that had a higher than average level of people leaning left and even then most of them were explicitly republican even if they thought trump was stupid.
The military will just do whatever they are told unless someone higher up is willing to break ranks first.
You might want to edit your post to read “armed forces” rather than army. The United States armed forces include Army, Navy, Coast Guard, Marines, Air Force, Space Force (LOL), and the National Guard. I apologize if I left anyone out.
Most of the US military have zero qualms about obeying illegal orders.
Reference: Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam, and most other U.S. instigated wars for their entire history.
This is what has been most depressing/distressing about watching all of this unfold. People online (and I’m not immune to this either) have this impulse to think “Surely not right? Surely these people will come to their senses and not just blindly follow transparently evil orders right? We’ve been told these people are heroes who stand up for freedom and democracy and our safety right? Surely at least some of them will do the right thing right?” It’s so ingrained into us through support our troops propaganda and various TV/Movies showing them and cops as principled heroes saving the day. We’ve also seen this with corporations. “Wow I can’t believe this company turned away from DEI so quickly. I can’t believe this company is going to keep selling surveillance tech to the government. Surely someone will see how wrong that is.”
And then I snap back to my senses and remember history. We’ve seen what horrors these people are willing to commit, whether they want to or are “just following orders.” Maybe you at least believe that they won’t do it to US, as cynical as that is… and then you remember Kent State, segregation, the violent crackdown on unions, the police rallying around protecting cops who execute people in the streets, etc.
Nobody is going to come to their senses. None of them are coming to save us from themselves. If we don’t stand up for ourselves this is just going to happen and be another chapter in a long history of cruelty.
The Milgram experiment. The Zimbardo prison experiment. The bystander effect. At the end of the day, humans are just monkeys with smart watches. As social primates, it’s really hard to be the one to stand up against the crowd. Our brains decide how to act based largely on the reactions of other humans around us.
It’s disheartening.
Don’t use the Zimbardo prison experiment. From your link:
Certain critics have described the study as unscientific and fraudulent.[6][7] In particular, Thibault Le Texier has established that the guards were asked directly to behave in certain ways in order to confirm Zimbardo’s conclusions, which were largely written in advance of the experiment.
I’m going to repeat what @plyth said. “Don’t use the Zimbardo prison experiment”.
Zimbardo was as manipulative as the psychologists from the Robbers Cave experiment,
with the only difference being that the former was only done once, while in the latter,
the subjects figured out that they were being manipulated and turned against the psychologists.Because of this, the conclusions Zimbardo drew himself are very different from when you conclude that
Zimbardo was behind the whole ordeal pulling the strings.
One only needed to stand up against one person, not a crowd.
How about we ask ‘Americans that are in the National Guard’, too.
i didn’t know the difference since Im not american. Another nicer person let me know and I edited it
Let’s face it, who do you think elected the Mr. President?
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Don’t forget the overwhelming general apathy towards, and lack of participation in, politics the majority has.
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Are they allowed on Lemmy? Partially sarcastic
As individuals yes, as representatives of the armed forces? Not likely. Anonymity helps, but I’m sure many would be wary of posting anything contrarian views right now.
Lemmy isn’t anonymous, it’s pseudonomyous.
Depends on what a person posts, but yes I’ll give you that. I can’t see it being anonymous from the government if they wanted to find out someone’s identity.
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Probably not a large enough user base to warrant it yet.
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I have no horse in this race :)
The fascist armed forces do and they have them trample on protesters.
