Personally I would be very pleased if both Putin and Khamenei were beaten to death by crooked sticks by an angry mob of pissed of civilians. That being said, I’m still not a fan of war.

إذا كنت عايش في الشرق الأوسط لا عرفت الاردن دولة فقيرة و ما تريد مشاكل ويا اي دولة. لا إسرائيل ولا السعوديه ولا تركيا ولا إيران. ما يردون دولتهم تصير كارثة مثل سوريه لو العراق لو لبنان.

It was a total of 14 missles, and 13 were knocked down. Also apparently Iran told both Qatar and the US that they were going to do this so they did have advanced notice.

Iran is clearly signaling that they’re willing to concede fighting back if the US accepts these performative strikes as deescalation. This is Iran’s go to when they get pressed. They did something similar when Israel killed Haniyeh in Tehran and when Trump killed Soleimani.

Iran is likely indirectly accepting Trump’s poor attempt at not fanning the flames further.

Then you proceed to explain how Jordan IS involved and justify it.

How are they involved? They’re not with Israel, Iran, or any power in the region. They’re not a part of any conflict. They just react when they’re directly involved. In this case, they shot down missiles that violated their airspace.

By downing Iranian missiles and letting the debris hit Jordan instead of letting them leave Jordanian airspace.

I lived in Iraq, I’ve seen Iranian missiles fly over where I lived before. They’re extremely unpredictable. The technology they use for their weapons is unreliable, and because of this a lot of their missiles don’t land where they’re intended. This is why Iran sends massive waves of missiles one after the other even though it’s very wasteful and expensive. They do it because they don’t have the capability to conduct more efficient precision strikes. What this means is that Iranian missiles could hit anywhere, and they have hit Jordanian towns and cities many times before, which ended killing Jordanian civilians.

Virtually all of Jordan’s cities and towns are located in the very west on the border with Israel/Palestine, and they’re heavily concentrated in the the northwest. Here’s an example population density map to show you how concentrated the country’s population is. As you can see, virtually nobody lives in the eastern two thirds of the country, The Jordanian desert is basically inhabitable. It makes sense for Jordan to shoot down these missiles over the desert where nobody lives instead of shooting them down near population centers or taking the risk of having the missiles of fly over and praying that none hit their cities.

Stay out of it and don’t invite the US military in (hence making yourself a target), don’t let US military use your airspace, don’t protect Israel, don’t intervene. This isn’t hard. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.

This is just a piss poor understanding of middle eastern geopolitics in general. The middle east doesn’t work like Europe, countries aren’t afforded a lot of options. It is an unstable region filled with war, religious extremism, tyrannical dictators, bad borders, and scarce resources.

Jordan is an inherently unstable country. Its borders don’t make sense, around half of its population are refugees, they’re boxed in by imperialist powers in all directions (Israel, Saudi Arabia/UAE, Iran, and Turkey) who all see the country as a part of their playground, and most of the surrounding countries in their position are doing way worse.

Lebanon, Syria, and Iraq have all done what exactly what you said, and look what that has brought them? They’re all war torn failed states that are ravaged by proxy terrorist groups, ruthless dictators, civil wars, and foreign invasions. Jordan would be brain dead to go down the same path as them.

The smartest thing they could do is what they’re doing now, which is basically being the Switzerland of their region. They have peaceful relations with all their neighbors, and they won’t partake in any conflict that doesn’t directly involve them in any way outside of diplomacy. This neutrality can only last if it’s guaranteed by a powerful external power, and this happens to be the US in this case. Jordan is unique in it’s neighborhood, but it’s not alone globally. Countries like Iceland, Ireland, Switzerland, Japan, Oman, and so on all get to enjoy being neutral countries because they have US protection.

Also I like how my prediction of you here…

You seem like the type of person who will never concede anything no matter how wrong you are,

…ended up being a prophecy.

You seem like the type of person who will never concede anything no matter how wrong you are, but what I am telling you is the reality. Whether you choose to accept it or not is up to you.

Countries in general only look out for themselves. There’s no “brotherhood” between countries. This is a cute idea that’s used to push ideological narratives and diplomacy, but it’s entirely superficial. Even the most loyal of alliances are based entirely in self-interest. No country anywhere, regardless of regime or ideology, is going to put itself in danger on the behalf of another country without gaining anything itself. That just doesn’t happen.

In this case, Israel and Iran are bombing each other. Jordan is not involved. However, they happen to be located in the middle of the two. Israel is bombing targets in Iran by flying military aircraft over Syria and refueling there. They’re not going through Jordan. Iran, on the other hand, doesn’t have such capabilities, so they have been firing missiles directly from Iran towards Israel. The issue is that in order for the missiles to reach Israel, they have to fly over Jordan.

Iran and Jordan are not allies. Iran attacks are not coordinated with the Jordanian government, and they do not have permission to access Jordan’s airspace. Iran fired missiles without warning or permission anyway. If Jordan was a more powerful country, this would be an act of war because it’s a huge breach of the country’s sovereignty and security. Iran can claim whatever it wants, it really doesn’t matter what the intended targets for those missiles are, the reality is that any of those missiles could hit inside Jordan’s borders. That is something that Jordan, like any other functional country, cannot ever allow to happen. It cannot let foreign missiles kill Jordanian citizens or destroy Jordanian infrastructure.

However, Jordan is a weak country, and they cannot go to war with a country more powerful than them nor do they have the capability to take down the missiles themselves. Jordan is aware of this, and they, like most other Arab countries in the middle east, have struck an alliance with the US as it’s the only country that can protect them and is willing to do so. In exchange for allowing the US military to operate bases inside the country, the US will use it’s resources to protect the country.

In this case, Iran announced ahead of time that they will launch missiles towards Israel, and so Jordan was warned that their airspace will be breached. Knowing this, the Jordanian government invoked their alliance with the US to cooperate on taking down any foreign projectiles illegally breaching their airspace… and so they did. Did they take down all the missiles? No, but they have to do something to at least to mitigate the risks that Jordan is facing to protect Jordanian cities and assets.

This isn’t a part of some conspiracy, this is some common sense. Literally any country that is not a failed state would do the same thing. If Syria and Iraq were functional countries, they would’ve also shot down Iranian and Israeli aircraft and missiles breaching their airspace. I seriously don’t understand what people like you think should happen, do actually think that countries like Jordan should sit back and have hundreds of missiles fly over their head without doing anything? That’s the type of shit that would start revolutions and coups. No cause is noble enough for a country to sacrifice itself or put itself in real danger.

People on this site are seriously out of touch

Lmao imagine thinking that Iran under the regime of the mullahs has ever had any sort of media freedom

Israel is terrible, but Iran is one of the few countries in the world that tops them.

• They funded, supported, and armed Hezbollah in Lebanon hat has helped turn the country into a failed state

• They funded, supported, and armed the Houthis in Yemen that helped turn the country into a failed state

• They funded, supported, and armed Zaynabiyoun Brigade and Fatemiyoun DivisionIraq in Syria which helped make Syria’s civil war so much worse

• They funded, supported, and armed Kataib Hezb Allah, Harakat Hezb Allah al Nujaba, Badr organization, Kataib Sayyad al Shuhada, and Asaib Ahl al Haq in Iraq which turned the country into a failed state

• They directly helped create the conditions that led to the rise of ISIS in both Iraq and Syria

• They are openly arming and supporting Russia’s invasion of Ukraine

• They support and fund Saraya al Ashtar and Saraya al Mukhtar in Bahrain to help destabilize the country

• They fund, support, and arm the Palestinian Islamic Jihad and Hamas in Palestine to keep the country radical and violent against Israel (funny how Israel and Iran have the same goals here)

• They supported the brutal Al Assad regime in Syria and helped keep him in power

• They supported and funded Hezbollah al Hejaz in Saudi Arabia to try and destabilize the country

• They literally have an entire branch in their military that’s specifically created for the purpose of arming proxy groups to destabilize the region (Quds force)

• They have been oppressing and killing their own people to such a comical degree that they even make other authoritarian countries uncomfortable

They Idk what planet people on this site live on, but Iran is not a force for good in any capacity. The people who support them are either evil, ignorant, or both.

WWII is a very weird exception. Most people have this mentality for just about every war in history except for WWII and really recent wars. For some reason, in the West history starts and stops with WWII. That is the point of reference for everything, and it’s the only war that’s with a superhero comic lens where there is an ultimate good and an ultimate evil… but that’s not really how history works.

Now this is a classic lemmy world salad

I actually lived in the Middle East (Iraq and Syria), and sovereignty over there means something different over there than in the west. It means stability and that is something that’s scarce and precious. Think about the countries surrounding Jordan, none of them are truly sovereign. They’re all flooded with proxy groups from the US, Iran, Turkey, Gulf states, and/or Russia that have led the countries into being failed states plagued by civil war, extremism, and violence. Jordan is like an oasis in the Middle East, and the people there don’t want to change that any time soon.

Jordan has it’s problems, the monarchy is definitely corrupt and unpopular, they population very much doesn’t like Israel, and they are sympathetic towards the Palestinian cause, BUT they are NOT willing to sacrifice their lives, their country, and their stable lives for them. Keep in mind, Palestinians aren’t exactly well liked in Jordan. There are two reasons for this.

The first is that the Palestinians tried to overthrow the government and nearly plunged the country into civil war not too long ago (Black September). Jordan fought wars on the behalf of Palestine, and so this event didn’t set will with Jordanians. The second is that because Jordan is stable, the country has been the go to destination for refugees from Iraq, Syria, and Palestine for decades. Around half of the country’s population is refugees. As you could imagine, this has stretched the state to its absolute limits and has put the economy in shambles. It doesn’t help that since a lot of the refugees are impoverished, they tend to be way more involved in crime and they have been causing mayham in Jordan’s big cities like Amman, Zarqa, and Irbid.

Long story short, the real world isn’t a Lemmy circlejerk. No country is dumb enough to risk their stability so they can seem morally superior to ideologues on the internet. It’s easy to sit there and wag your finger while you’re sitting in your comfortable home far away in the US or Europe. But to the people actually living there, nothing is worth sacrificing themselves over. To you things like stability and sovereignty are vague and abstract concepts because none of this personally affects you. This is why people like you are willing to fight for Palestine to the last Jordanian citizen without understanding what that means.

They will, but if they were to return to the status quo it’ll be through weaker and weaker retaliation attacks. The ol’ deescalation through escalation that we’ve seen them do many times in the past.

You can’t hide damage of that significance. Both Israel and Iran lie about the extent of the damages, but damage can be verified. You can’t hide dead commanders or hide from satellite images. We tend to have a good idea of what happened shortly after.

In this case, Iran has admitted to a lot of the damages that Israel claimed and a few other of their claims can be verified with satellite imagery. However, Israel hasn’t admitted to any strategic damage by Iran nor has there been any verification for the damages that aimed for. Iran can say they aimed for something, that doesn’t mean they did. They can claim they hit something, doesn’t mean they did.

I understand being skeptical of Israel because they’re a dubious source, especially when they’re one of the parties involved. That being said, we’re at the point where we can tell that Iran’s missle barrage yesterday didn’t do much.

makes their iron dome useless

Just an FYI, the Iron Dome is not designed to intercept missles. It’s designed to intercept short range rockets and artillery. This means that the Iron Dome probably wasn’t used at all yesterday. Instead, other systems like Arrow, David’s Sling, and THAAD were used since these systems were actually designed to counter missles.

Iran doesn’t recognize Israel so they won’t have any direct negotiations any time soon.

Well, they did. That’s just a basic observation based on what happened. Hating Israel is fine, hating Israel to the point where you start thinking any criticism of anything that’s not Israel = being pro Israel is not okay.

Countries do this in general because those projectiles are violating these countries’ sovereignty. Iran doesn’t ask these countries for permission to have their missiles go through their airspace, they just do it. No country is going to allow another country to endanger it’s people by sending through its borders without their consent, so they just take them down.

In this case, Jordan is under the protection of the US and they have American bases and use American systems. So when something like this happens, Jordan works in coordination with the US to take the missles over its borders.

People on here lack any nuance. They view any criticism of Iran as support for Israel even that’s not the case.

A paper tiger doesn’t necessarily mean that a country is weak, it just means that a country is weaker than it is perceived. It’s a relative term. Iran is much stronger than my home country of Iraq, whom they have thoroughly abused. However, Iraqis in general think that Iran is actually a weak country relative to, say for example, Turkey, who has similar base stats.

The Iranian regime portrays itself as this mighty and powerful power that contend with the West, and here in the West we make Iran seem like it’s as powerful as the Soviet Union was… But in reality their strength has been greatly exaggerated by propaganda both inside and outside the country, and their actual capabilities are far less than they are on paper, hence why it’s a paper tiger.

You could make the same argument for Russia. Before the Ukraine war both Putin’s regime and the West believed that Russia’s military was world’s second most powerful and that they’re strong enough to take on the US… At least in theory. But as it turns out, Russia is way weaker than anybody expected and they keep getting pushed back by Ukraine. Russia is still strong, but they’re also a paper tiger.

Except it didn’t. If anything their response proves my point. It is such a weak response compared what Israel did to them. Think about it, what did their retaliation actually accomplish? Most of the missles didn’t hit, and the very few that did hit didn’t hit any strategic targets. They literally only hit random some random buildings and caused some civilian injuries… That’s it. Compared to what Israel did to them that’s nothing.

They’re all a part of the same coalition that is under US protection and against the influence of Iran and Turkey.