OK genocide apologist.

Forcing a people to be part of your system against their wishes is subjugation. The Ukrainians wanted independence. They literally fought for it and lost. Excusing genocide because there was some bonus education is disgusting. Excusing imperialism because you like the perks makes you an imperialist.

Its honestly disgusting how much you try to explain away disproportionate grain quotas so much that you mass starve the very people producing your food and are conveniently also trying to subjugate as unintentional. I’m sure you have lovely things to say about the Irish potato famine as not being genocide too. It’s only genocide when checks notes the imperialists I don’t like do it.

Genocide doesn’t have to be sophisticated, systematic, and performed with guns to be effective. I didn’t compare this situation to the holocaust for a reason.

Intent is a wishy washy excuse when the reality is targeted death of a specific subjugated people. It’s how everyone tries to weasel out of being accused of genocide. Israel doesn’t want to kill all of the Palestinians. Its not their intent. They just want the land and mass Palestinian death is just an unintended side effect. If I roll my eyes any harder I’ll lose them to the back of my head.

but lets look to Raphael Lemkin who is the one credited with coming up with the term genocide:

What I want to speak about is perhaps the classic example of Soviet genocide, its longest and broadest experiment in Russification — the destruction of the Ukrainian nation

Imaging not understanding sarcasm. It’s rich to say I don’t care about people who die when you’re the one cherry picking which genocides to support.

Non intentional genocides and sad truths are lame excuses for an authoritarian regime that took away the autonomy of other nations and caused disproportional death of those they were trying to control.

Sweden made rapid advances in social welfare and programs under Olof. Sorry he didn’t subjugate enough people for you to feel like it was good socialism. Enjoy the boot but be careful because it doesn’t just stomp on the people you think deserve it.

My friend Ukrainian friends should be grateful the the USSR? Barf. Clever you never mention to holodomor. But i bet that is very conveniently not genocide for you. Maybe you should tell African countries to be grateful for their imperialism next since it brought them boarders and some modernization while you’re at it.

Look, you accuse me of not reading. But you seem high on only reading the propaganda you’ve gobbled up. You’re so biased it’s invalidated most of what you’d consider an argument. Though its hard to consider it much if an argument when in this very thread you’ve contradict yourself and offer up fallacies left and right.

I’m not comparing Russia to the USSR. I’m saying that authoritarian capitalism never ended there.

Enjoy your personal cult flavor of imperialism while doing mental gymnastics to call it something else. When a government forceful controls others, its imperialism. Just because you think they were good imperialists doesn’t mean they weren’t imperialists.

Things can do good and still be bad. America helped fight the Nazis (and also paved the way at certain points in a few things you list including free education for children) and they’re still bad. Thing can be better than other systems and still be bad. Capitalism was better than feudalism. I still don’t want it. Also its laughable to say it fought hardest against imperialism. I dare you to tell that to many of the countries it used to control, both directly and indirectly, through military power. I dare you to tell that to a Ukrainian friend. Russia/USSR was/is still an imperial power that’s caused a lot of harm.

Also, even doing all that, it was still authoritarian state own capitalism at best in the end. That’s what you’re defending as the bastion of lefty success?

Enjoy your bad logic and your boot. We don’t see eye to eye.

The kind of socialism that’s just state owned capitalism isn’t even socialism at all if you ask me.

You asked what kind of socialism I like. I really liked the elected leader of Sweden Olof Palme who enhanced socialism by strengthening unions with the long term goal of turning them into workers cooperatives. He was unfortunately assassinated before he could see that through. But this form of non authoritarian socialism is how I would like to see the rise of socialism.

I also agree that unions and class struggle work too. But part of that is being politically involved and voting. I’m not diminishing the work of unions, my whole point is emphasizing the power of voting. Not voting is literally throwing away the limited amount of political capital you have.

Organize. Unionize. Share theory. But also vote.

P.s. I’m not down voting you. I known that’s silly to comment but I don’t try to punish people having good faith arguments with me.

The truth is the dems suck. They will do anything for a buck. They will support genocide for a buck. And they will lose an election they know they could win because the electorate will just swing right back to them in after they had another taste of republicans for 4 years if it means they keep getting that sweet sweet AIPAC money.

From a pragmatic standpoint, not voting isn’t teaching the democratic establishment a damn thing. They’re far more afraid of you voting for change within the party than they are afraid of you not voting and temporarily ceding power to the right. Then they get to leave in the obscene things the Republicans enacted that also make the dems money without it looking like they wanted it to happen.

The reality is that if more people voted consistently then the political machine would actually be beholden to the voters. Politics would actually shift left towards popular policy instead of just swing back and forth. But people don’t vote. So they can just ignore what you want most of the time. And now we have the deal with whatever the fuck the authoritarians leading project 2025 can manage to fanangle. And if they get their way the american people will either accept things the way Russians and Hungarians have and the worlds largest army will be run by uninhibited authoritarian fascists, or the country will get very bloody.

But on the front of this single election and not voting. Its a literal trolley problem. Vote for 1 person to get run over or don’t vote/flip the switch and watch 3 people get run over. Either way, blood is on your hands. It’s on mine. But there’s a little less. No decision is still a decision. Not voting for genocide enabled more death. I don’t see how that can be morally superior when the practical outcome is worse.

If you oppose genocide then you’d do everything you could to prevent as much genocide as possible. Enabling Trump by not voting and encouraging others not to vote is going to get a lot of people killed. It’s going to get people put in concentration camps, deported to counties they’ve never been to and will struggle to survive in, result in the erasure of trans people, get women killed in childbirth, get people killed on the job as workers safety rights diminish, get children killed as child labor laws disappear, expand the power Russia has over Ukraine (a country they have commited genocide on before), and still get Palestinians in Gaza and the west bank murdered. It honestly makes “you” almost as bad as the fascists in my opinion. Maybe everyone who didn’t vote because of Palestine can go vacation in Gaza after Trump has built a few hotels there and see the real true work all those protest votes helped accomplish.

I’m not absolving dems for being involved in the genocide in Gaza. Their support for Zionism is obscene. But a lot more damage is going to be done now that the power is strengthening in the executive branch under trump and it’s extremely privlidged to act like a protest vote was the morally superior option.

But I’m a socialist because I also think that the means of production should be owned by the workers.

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I get down voted from the .ml crowd for informing them their support of Trump, either direct or inadvertent, isn’t going to save Palestine its just going to get trans people killed and this gets me either blocked or banned. These people see an authoritarian and they can’t help but get a boner.

I’m a socialist. But I’m an anti authoritarian first.

Legit. Fuck Israel. Fuck Zionism. Fuck apartheid. Fuck the genocide of Palestinians. But also fuck antisemitism.