• bingBingBongBong@lemm.ee
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    1 day ago

    In Germany, “Pro-palestine” protestors usually try to hijack left-wing demonstrations for unrelated topics. Saw that many times myself, and get super sad about it all the time.

    It is really tough if you are out demonstrating fascism, and all of a sudden people with antisemitic symbols stand behind you, waving their watermelons and god knows what

    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      Israel is a fascist apartheid state committing genocide. Police violently cracking down on anti-israel / anti-zionist speech is also fascist. You are conflating anti-zionism with anti-semitism, which is genuine anti-semitism. Anti-zionism calls for the end to genocide and for Palestinians emancipation.

      Zionism is about Settler Colonialism and Ethnic Cleansing of native Palestinians, it is not reflective of Judaism nor is it representative of Jewish people. Anti-zionism is not anti-semitism. The conflation of the two is genuinely antisemitic, as it falsely attributes the actions of Israel to all Jewish people.

      Zionism is anti-Semitic at it’s core, it other-izes Jewish people, and justifies the violent settler colonialim of Israel as in the defense of all Jewish people, which only serves to further fuel genuine Antisemitism at the expense of Jewish people globally. Zionism is also an inherently fascist ideology. The ethnic cleansing of the native people of Palestine has always been fundamental since it’s inception as a colonialist movement.

      Adi Callai, an Israeli, does a great analysis of how Antisemitism has been weaponized by Zionism during its history.

      • jimmy90@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        depends on the kind of anti-zionism

        “destroy israel” for example is genocidal

        palestinians and israeli’s have been trying to genocide eachother for about a hundred years

        • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world
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          8 hours ago

          palestinians and israeli’s have been trying to genocide eachother for about a hundred years

          That’s completely false and a common hasbara talking point to justify the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

          The Concept of Transfer in Zionist Political Thought goes back to 1882

          Zionism’s aims in Palestine, its deeply-held conviction that the Land of Israel belonged exclusively to the Jewish people as a whole, and the idea of Palestine’s “civilizational barrenness" or “emptiness” against the background of European imperialist ideologies all converged in the logical conclusion that the native population should make way for thenewcomers.

          The idea that the Palestinian Arabs must find a place for themselves elsewhere was articulated early on. Indeed, the founder of the movement, Theodor Herzl, provided an early reference to transfer even before he formally outlined his theory of Zionist rebirth in his Judenstat.

          An 1895 entry in his diary provides in embryonic form many of the elements that were to be demonstrated repeatedly in the Zionist quest for solutions to the “Arab problem ”-the idea of dealing with state governments over the heads of the indigenous population, Jewish acquisition of property that would be inalienable, “Hebrew Land" and “Hebrew Labor,” and the removal of the native population.

          Partition

          The Zionists were tireless in their efforts to shape the Commission’s proposals, meeting not only with the Com­ mission members themselves, but with statesmen, cabinet ministers, members of parliament, and senior officials at the Foreign and Colonial Office with whom the Commission members were likely to consult before formulating their recommendations.15 At these meetings the idea of a popu­lation transfer was promoted in conjunction with the parti­tion of the country, the partition idea apparently was first suggested by a member of the Commission itself. Professor Reginald Coupland, during a private meeting with Weizmann in Palestine. The prospect of official British recognition- hitherto steadfastly denied-of Jewish sovereignty and state­ hood, even in only part of Palestine, represented a tremen­ dous, and at that stage unhoped for, advance for the Zionist movement. Given the demographic realities at the time, whatever boundaries might be devised for partition would inevitably result in large numbers of Arabs and even greater expanses of Arab-owned land becoming part of whatever Jewish state would be carved out. Thus, the notion of transfer was a natural concommitant to the partition idea. Evidence sug­ gests that the proposal of Arab transfer that was ultimately made by the Royal Commission originated from, and had been secretly conveyed by, top Jewish Agency leaders, including Ben-Gurion, Shertok, and weizmann. As early as the Jewish Agency Executive meeting in October, Ben- Gurion had indicated his intention to raise the issue: “if the Peel Commission and the London government accept [the idea of transfer to Transjordan], we will remove the land problem from the agenda.’

          • Simha Flapan - The Birth of Israel Myths and Realities

          Morris asserted that the onset of the fighting between Israel and the Arab armies that entered the country on the day the British Mandate ended, May 15, 1948, was the main reason for what he called the “Birth of the Palestinian refugee problem.” I have argued that it was not the war itself, since half of those who became refugees—hundreds of thousands of Palestinians—had been expelled before it had even commenced. Moreover, I claimed that the war was initiated by Israel in order to secure the historical opportunity to expel the Palestinians.19 The idea that the Palestinians left voluntarily is not the only false assumption associated with the 1948 war. There are three others that are often aired to explain away the events of that year. The first is that the Palestinians are to be blamed for what happened to them since they rejected the UN partition plan of November 1947. This allegation ignores the colonialist nature of the Zionist movement. What is clear is that the ethnic cleansing of the Palestinians can in no way be justified as a “punishment” for their rejecting a UN peace plan that was devised without any consultation with the Palestinians themselves.

          • Ilan Pappe - Ten Myths About Israel - Ch 5
          Under Occupation

          Hamas began twenty years into the occupation during the first Intifada, with the goal of ending the occupation. Collective punishment has been a deliberate Israeli tactic for decades with the Dahiya doctrine. Violence such as suicide bombings and rockets escalated in response to Israeli enforcement of the occupation and apartheid.

          Hamas 1988 Charter and Revised 2017 Charter

          The 1988 Charter, which is certainly unreasonable in its fundamentalism with Sharia Law and is antisemitic, does not call for the extermination of all Jewish People. Hamas wants an end to Israel as an Apartheid State, not an extermination of all Israelis. Under Ahmed Yassin in the 1990’s, truces were offered in exchange for Israeli to withdrawal from Gaza and the West Bank to the 1967 borders. The 2017 Revised charter explicitly accepts a Two-State Solution of the 1967 Borders. Check Article 7 and 13 of the 1988 Charter to see yourself, compare it to Article 20 and 24-26 in the revised charter.

          The slogan From the River to the Sea is about Palestinian liberation that started in the 60s by the PLO for a democratic secular state, not Genocide. The Syrian leader Hafez al-Assad in 1966 maybe, but he’s not Palestinian.

          History of Hamas supported by Netanyahu since 2012

          • jimmy90@lemmy.world
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            3 hours ago

            morris doesn’t say that palestine belongs to the jews, he quite clearly states lots of people have lived there over the years mostly under muslim empires but also a jewish country that was ethnically cleansed by the romans

            oh and hamas started with the aim of destroying israel. genocide

    • jimmy90@lemmy.world
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      16 hours ago

      here’s a video on the history of palestine, you can decide for yourself if the jews have a right to live in palestine, have a right to a state in palestine, have a right to return to palestine and how long the conflict has been going on

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wv8F4NLr4E0

    • jimmy90@lemmy.world
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      1 day ago

      the palestinian “protest” has been injected into everything possible to influence a lot of things

      courtesy of one of their sponsors; a mr putin from moscow, who ironically is best friends with a mr trump from NY - one of their worst enemies