My understanding is that a major part of what Albertans are angry about is that they have oil and gas resources that the (often more urban) rest of Canada isn’t letting then exploit, and that’s making them feel economically hamstrung.
A few things:
Alberta has pipelines directly to the US. The US is the main export market and whole refineries exist that are tuned to this type of crude. Ownership is something that would have to be handled, but they can get crude to the states without crossing provincial borders.
They want a pipeline to the west coast to export to Asia. The feds just removed a bunch of barriers and basically agreed to build one so that’s less pressing. No way they get BC to agree to a pipeline without the feds forcing the issue. BC has to deal with the environmental issues and increased ship traffic.
Alberta supports low taxes by subsidizing the lost income with O&G royalties. They are trying to keep those in place even as needs outpace royalties. Do environment regs play a part? Sure. But the PM is a text book neoliberal and has already said fuck the environment, we need money. The previous PM wasn’t so overt but sure set carbon targets without plans… I suspect lack of investment and stable markets is what is largely limiting expansion, which is why there is importance put on the Pacific Pipeline.
So, I don’t know if Canada would let Alberta go peacefully, though I’d be inclined to doubt it,
I mean, no one can say for sure but there is a legal path for it, in contrast to the USA. Is the bar impossibly high? Maybe. But it’s not the first time we had to think about it reasonably seriously.
Alberta has pipelines directly to the US. The US is the main export market and whole refineries exist that are tuned to this type of crude. Ownership is something that would have to be handled, but they can get crude to the states without crossing provincial borders.
Well yes, but actually no. All they have to do is increase the capacity of their 3 direct lines by a factor of 10. I can only assume there’s no fucking reason they pipe it halfway across the continent, and I have to believe that replacing that massive pipeline will take neither money nor time.
Sure, but I was responding to the comment about being landlocked. As much of an undertaking it would be to build that capacity, it’s not negotiating access through other countries.
Sure, that’s what they’re told to say. That has nothing to do with the actual reason for the separatists. If you want to understand where this is coming from, understand that all Alberta Oil Companies are American owned. They only play American television in the work camps. All the radio stations are American owned. All the newspapers are American owned. The first thing our Premier did when she took office was try to pardon Anti-vaxers, only to discover Canadian Premiers don’t have the power to pardon and she was actually breaking the law by trying to influence criminal investigations. They literally think they’re American, because American media and culture are the only things they’re allowed to consume. They’re deeply, deeply confused people who don’t even know where they are or what’s going on around them because they’re so saturated in American propaganda and American paid AstroTurfers they literally can’t tell which side of the border they’re currently on.
This isn’t a group you can reason with rationally. This is a cult force-fed propaganda like that scene from Clockwork Orange. Trying to engage with their delusions isn’t helpful, they’re not expressing reasoned insight, they’re shouting shibboleths like a pack of wild dogs.
Thanks, I didn’t mean for my comment to be authoritative. There was just a lot there that was just inaccurate and wanted to help people outside the country understand.
I agree that a lack of understanding of how things work (like the pardon thing you mentioned) plays a massive role. I don’t seek to know laws because I think they are just and correct, I want to know what they are so I can figure out how to do what I want. It seems like at least some portion of the separatists haven’t bothered to do that and are like “nuh uh, I’ll make my own rules.” Sure. Good luck.
There’s a small core of people with an agenda to turn us into a US territory, capture our oil royalties and eliminate public services. There’s also a halo group that are trying to leverage the situation to buy concessions for Alberta from the fed. That halo group doesn’t appreciate the danger of the fire they’re playing with. They are going to sell their children into slavery for the promise of a bowl of soup. The lion’s share of the “movement” (if you want to call it that) is just deeply misguided people who don’t understand they’re being fed lies. Breaking through that information silo is the most critical thing we need to do. The only way to do that is to identify the most weakly connected, build relationships of trust with them, and gradually bring them back out of the cult and keep pecking away at the edges until it’s just the core left and the rest are back in the wider Alberta community. It’s not as herculean a task as it seems, True Believers are a very, very small minority, even within Alberta.
We do need to get past this philosophical abstract idea we can educate them out of the circle. You might convince the outer halo that the risk of using the cult like a weapon is that it will cost them everything when they lose control, and they will always lose control as it snowballs, but you’re not going to deprogram the true believers that way. Oil Cult deprogramming is a much more indirect process.
A few things:
Alberta has pipelines directly to the US. The US is the main export market and whole refineries exist that are tuned to this type of crude. Ownership is something that would have to be handled, but they can get crude to the states without crossing provincial borders.
They want a pipeline to the west coast to export to Asia. The feds just removed a bunch of barriers and basically agreed to build one so that’s less pressing. No way they get BC to agree to a pipeline without the feds forcing the issue. BC has to deal with the environmental issues and increased ship traffic.
Alberta supports low taxes by subsidizing the lost income with O&G royalties. They are trying to keep those in place even as needs outpace royalties. Do environment regs play a part? Sure. But the PM is a text book neoliberal and has already said fuck the environment, we need money. The previous PM wasn’t so overt but sure set carbon targets without plans… I suspect lack of investment and stable markets is what is largely limiting expansion, which is why there is importance put on the Pacific Pipeline.
I mean, no one can say for sure but there is a legal path for it, in contrast to the USA. Is the bar impossibly high? Maybe. But it’s not the first time we had to think about it reasonably seriously.
Well yes, but actually no. All they have to do is increase the capacity of their 3 direct lines by a factor of 10. I can only assume there’s no fucking reason they pipe it halfway across the continent, and I have to believe that replacing that massive pipeline will take neither money nor time.
Sure, but I was responding to the comment about being landlocked. As much of an undertaking it would be to build that capacity, it’s not negotiating access through other countries.
Sure, that’s what they’re told to say. That has nothing to do with the actual reason for the separatists. If you want to understand where this is coming from, understand that all Alberta Oil Companies are American owned. They only play American television in the work camps. All the radio stations are American owned. All the newspapers are American owned. The first thing our Premier did when she took office was try to pardon Anti-vaxers, only to discover Canadian Premiers don’t have the power to pardon and she was actually breaking the law by trying to influence criminal investigations. They literally think they’re American, because American media and culture are the only things they’re allowed to consume. They’re deeply, deeply confused people who don’t even know where they are or what’s going on around them because they’re so saturated in American propaganda and American paid AstroTurfers they literally can’t tell which side of the border they’re currently on.
This isn’t a group you can reason with rationally. This is a cult force-fed propaganda like that scene from Clockwork Orange. Trying to engage with their delusions isn’t helpful, they’re not expressing reasoned insight, they’re shouting shibboleths like a pack of wild dogs.
Thanks, I didn’t mean for my comment to be authoritative. There was just a lot there that was just inaccurate and wanted to help people outside the country understand.
I agree that a lack of understanding of how things work (like the pardon thing you mentioned) plays a massive role. I don’t seek to know laws because I think they are just and correct, I want to know what they are so I can figure out how to do what I want. It seems like at least some portion of the separatists haven’t bothered to do that and are like “nuh uh, I’ll make my own rules.” Sure. Good luck.
There’s a small core of people with an agenda to turn us into a US territory, capture our oil royalties and eliminate public services. There’s also a halo group that are trying to leverage the situation to buy concessions for Alberta from the fed. That halo group doesn’t appreciate the danger of the fire they’re playing with. They are going to sell their children into slavery for the promise of a bowl of soup. The lion’s share of the “movement” (if you want to call it that) is just deeply misguided people who don’t understand they’re being fed lies. Breaking through that information silo is the most critical thing we need to do. The only way to do that is to identify the most weakly connected, build relationships of trust with them, and gradually bring them back out of the cult and keep pecking away at the edges until it’s just the core left and the rest are back in the wider Alberta community. It’s not as herculean a task as it seems, True Believers are a very, very small minority, even within Alberta.
We do need to get past this philosophical abstract idea we can educate them out of the circle. You might convince the outer halo that the risk of using the cult like a weapon is that it will cost them everything when they lose control, and they will always lose control as it snowballs, but you’re not going to deprogram the true believers that way. Oil Cult deprogramming is a much more indirect process.