Nvidia fans kept insisting that “Nvidia works perfectly for me” even when Wayland was entirely unsupported and using highly insecure X11 was really not a bad thing at all.
More recently game mode didn’t work on Nvidia because their drivers again lacked features.
Just because you don’t use a feature not supported by your drivers, doesn’t mean that it’s not true. By the very nature how Nvidia develop their drivers, they will lag behind Mesa “standards”.
There’s a reason you are talking in past tense. It works with new games and Wayland nowadays. Unless the game is inherently broken on windows and AMD cards too (hey, MHWilds, fuck you). In any case I wouldn’t buy a new NVIDIA card, but gatekeeping and fear mongering windows users with NVIDIA cards isn’t the play either. It works fine, not the best, but fine.
Yes, the reason being that I no longer use Nvidia hardware under Linux myself, so I’m not actively looking for the very latest news. Nvidia and SteamOS game mode is a very recent development, literally within the last two weeks.
Then… If you are not up to date with the stuff you shouldn’t be commenting on all of that as if it were current news. You did use past tense, but someone might miss that and just read all the stuff at face value. In any case I agree, and is better than NVIDIA currently even though most pain points are fixed. As I already wrote, I wouldn’t pick NVIDIA for a new Linux card, it’s just that having NVIDIA shouldn’t be a deterrent for windows people in the fence.
I’m up to date enough that I know that Nvidia drivers didn’t support a game mode feature until a few weeks ago. Also, those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat past mistakes.
It is not gatekeeping or fear mongering if we are giving real expectation. I saw countless people going back to Windows because they tried running Linux and either faced challenges or worse performance. I prefer to alert them instead of sugar coat.
Talking present tense, “it works fine”, still off:
“It works with new games” sure but if you are playing DX12 titles prepare to experience a 15% to 30% performance tax compared to play on Windows or even compared to Amd
If you plan to use secure boot, it is not all distro that will give you an easy path. Be prepared for rough edges. This is primarily caused because their stack isn’t in the upstream kernel.
If you are security conscious, and harden your system, be aware that if you are using AppArmor or SELinux to lock down your system, you almost always have to carve out manual exceptions specifically to get Nvidia drivers to play nice.
The ‘Goldilocks’ Setup: You are constantly forced to chase the perfect environment, the right distro, the bleeding-edge updates, the exact driver version, just to get basic desktop features like Wayland running without artifacting or flickering
Auditing not only for fixing and improving things but for the peace of mind as well, right now we have to trust on Nvidia closed source code. We are to a certain degree privacy exposed.
Having said all of the things above, there are real reasons yet to pick Nvidia over other GPUs, even on Linux. If we are not talking about gaming, CUDA and AI are still considerably better on Nvidia.
Nevertheless, currently, Nvidia on Linux generally feels like you have to maintain a second, highly temperamental operating system along side your installation.
No one is advocating people getting a new NVIDIA card, did you misread my post? I’m claiming that already having NVIDIA isn’t a deterrent for a Linux swap. It really isn’t.
Let’s be honest, 15% of a performance cost IS working fine. It’s not flawless, but it’s still fine.
Secure boot, apparmor and all that stuff isn’t something to consider because anyone that invested in computers already has enough information that these discussions are moot. Let me repeat, I already made clear that I wouldn’t consider NVIDIA for a new Linux card.
About the artifacts and stuff, again, old stuff. For context, I’ve been playing Path of Exile 1&2, Grim Dawn, Spiderman 2 recently, MHRise, MHWilds (which was bullshit on both cards, on windows too), cyberpunk on the dlc release, and a bunch of pixel art games that aren’t worth mentioning since they could run on a toaster.
I’ve been playing games without caring for either and it again works fine. I run endeavourOS (arch) and update once a month-ish, some days before a game release. Just as I did with drivers in windows, it’s not such a big deal ffs. That perfect environment and right distro stuff is such an overblown thing, just get whatever and install the latest stuff, it will work fine unless the game dev is intentionally stupid nowadays.
Finally, the drivers being closed source is again moot because for a Windows->Linux transition, they aren’t really getting anything worse in terms of audits.
Maybe you missed the “I’d never buy a new NVIDIA card” thing and missed that the implication of my point was a windows to Linux transition? Idk, your response is very technically oriented.
Nvidia might not exist in a couple years, because of that financial collapse they’re about to cause
And ruining the cost of everything including ram, putting small hardware producers of everything from computer cases to their own cards out of business, etc. Nobody with a brain would deal with those fucking losers now, and nobody with a heart would tolerate them in a build.
If you think Nvidia will stop existing but AMD or Intel of all companies survive you live under a rock on the dark side of the moon. Same goes for rising costs of everything because of AI. Nvidia, AMD and Intel are all the same here. It makes no sense so many people differentiate here. Like, do you guys not pay any attention at all? If anything Intel is much worse than the other two because it directly answers to the orange’s fascist regime. They’re the last company I will trust my money with.
Yeah. I think Nvidia will be fine. The way I see it, AI either keeps scaling, and Nvidia makes money, or AI collapses, and Nvidia gets to sell a buttload of GPUs to a market segment that has been priced out of upgrading their hardware for the past few years and are desperate for affordable upgrades, and on top of that Nvidia I’m sure has negotiated some kind of payout if their AI customers don’t take delivery of the hardware they are contracted for, so Nvidia gets to double-dip on the equipment they’ve produced. Kind of a win-win for them.
They might survive. I don’t think they’ll be fine in any situation where they’re forced to return to the consumer market.
There’s a lot of ridiculously circular financing* here, and if there’s any insistence that money isn’t just completely nonsense bullshit here, some heads are gonna need to roll.
*okay so Alice takes out a hundred dollar lease from Bob. Bob goes to a bank and uses that as collateral to get a two hundred dollar lease from Carol. Carol takes that to the bank and uses it as collateral to get a loan for a thousand dollar lease from Alice who uses that as collateral to get a 5000 dollar loan from Bob, who… Tl:;Dr: nvidia’s standing on a financial house of cards and betting on a bailout that makes the whole of 08 look like nothing.
For a long time, Intel was the only GPU manufacturer that worked just as well on Linux as it did on Windows. The problem was that they only made integrated graphics, so it was useless for gaming.
Arc was their first attempt at a discrete PCIe GPU. The Linux community had the expectation that Linux would be a first-class citizen. IIRC it missed the bar, but it wasn’t horrible.
By the time this all happened, AMD was hitting performance parity between Windows and Linux. You’ll notice in the steam hardware survey that AMD is the undisputable king of Linux.
If Arc is now working well on SteamOS, it’s probably worth re-evaluating.
On Linux, over amd there isn’t as much of a direct reason unless you’re also gaming off an arc based igpu media server. Over Nvidia, it’s b cause nvidias Linux experience is more compromised than Intel/amd (it’s not 0 but you make more concessions on top of the ones that inherently come with Linux)
I am out of the loop. Why should I consider an Intel Arc over Nvidia or AMD? Is it just a price thing?
Well, yes.
If you can get an Arc GPU at a better price than the equivalent AMD, that’s a huge deal.
It’s neat to have more than one option. With Nvidia of course not being one.
Nvidia may catch up one day but I dont think it will be until NVK gets good
Nvidia GPUs will never fully catch up until Nvidia themselves switch their entire driver model to be open source and upstream developed within Mesa.
Watching that video I can see the card being very useful once the Linux drivers can fully exploit the hardware.
Why wouldn’t Nvidia be one? Other Linux users keep saying it’s no good but they work perfectly fine for me.
Nvidia fans kept insisting that “Nvidia works perfectly for me” even when Wayland was entirely unsupported and using highly insecure X11 was really not a bad thing at all.
More recently game mode didn’t work on Nvidia because their drivers again lacked features.
Just because you don’t use a feature not supported by your drivers, doesn’t mean that it’s not true. By the very nature how Nvidia develop their drivers, they will lag behind Mesa “standards”.
It’s not like AMD cards are flawless anyway, they’re plagued with weird bugs that are damn annoying as well. There’s no ideal solution.
AMD GPUs have completely different drivers under Linux than Windows. What’s a card bug anyway?
The display randomly freezing, fixed by cycling the monitor. Why, I’m not sure if anyone knows.
There have been boot crashes or oddities, mostly mitigated with passing parameters to the driver at boot. Only mostly though.
Ah so it’s just irrational past grudges. Glad we could clear that up.
There’s a reason you are talking in past tense. It works with new games and Wayland nowadays. Unless the game is inherently broken on windows and AMD cards too (hey, MHWilds, fuck you). In any case I wouldn’t buy a new NVIDIA card, but gatekeeping and fear mongering windows users with NVIDIA cards isn’t the play either. It works fine, not the best, but fine.
Yes, the reason being that I no longer use Nvidia hardware under Linux myself, so I’m not actively looking for the very latest news. Nvidia and SteamOS game mode is a very recent development, literally within the last two weeks.
Then… If you are not up to date with the stuff you shouldn’t be commenting on all of that as if it were current news. You did use past tense, but someone might miss that and just read all the stuff at face value. In any case I agree, and is better than NVIDIA currently even though most pain points are fixed. As I already wrote, I wouldn’t pick NVIDIA for a new Linux card, it’s just that having NVIDIA shouldn’t be a deterrent for windows people in the fence.
I’m up to date enough that I know that Nvidia drivers didn’t support a game mode feature until a few weeks ago. Also, those who don’t learn from history are bound to repeat past mistakes.
It is not gatekeeping or fear mongering if we are giving real expectation. I saw countless people going back to Windows because they tried running Linux and either faced challenges or worse performance. I prefer to alert them instead of sugar coat.
Talking present tense, “it works fine”, still off:
“It works with new games” sure but if you are playing DX12 titles prepare to experience a 15% to 30% performance tax compared to play on Windows or even compared to Amd
If you plan to use secure boot, it is not all distro that will give you an easy path. Be prepared for rough edges. This is primarily caused because their stack isn’t in the upstream kernel.
If you are security conscious, and harden your system, be aware that if you are using AppArmor or SELinux to lock down your system, you almost always have to carve out manual exceptions specifically to get Nvidia drivers to play nice.
The ‘Goldilocks’ Setup: You are constantly forced to chase the perfect environment, the right distro, the bleeding-edge updates, the exact driver version, just to get basic desktop features like Wayland running without artifacting or flickering
Auditing not only for fixing and improving things but for the peace of mind as well, right now we have to trust on Nvidia closed source code. We are to a certain degree privacy exposed.
Having said all of the things above, there are real reasons yet to pick Nvidia over other GPUs, even on Linux. If we are not talking about gaming, CUDA and AI are still considerably better on Nvidia.
Nevertheless, currently, Nvidia on Linux generally feels like you have to maintain a second, highly temperamental operating system along side your installation.
No one is advocating people getting a new NVIDIA card, did you misread my post? I’m claiming that already having NVIDIA isn’t a deterrent for a Linux swap. It really isn’t.
Let’s be honest, 15% of a performance cost IS working fine. It’s not flawless, but it’s still fine.
Secure boot, apparmor and all that stuff isn’t something to consider because anyone that invested in computers already has enough information that these discussions are moot. Let me repeat, I already made clear that I wouldn’t consider NVIDIA for a new Linux card.
About the artifacts and stuff, again, old stuff. For context, I’ve been playing Path of Exile 1&2, Grim Dawn, Spiderman 2 recently, MHRise, MHWilds (which was bullshit on both cards, on windows too), cyberpunk on the dlc release, and a bunch of pixel art games that aren’t worth mentioning since they could run on a toaster.
I’ve been playing games without caring for either and it again works fine. I run endeavourOS (arch) and update once a month-ish, some days before a game release. Just as I did with drivers in windows, it’s not such a big deal ffs. That perfect environment and right distro stuff is such an overblown thing, just get whatever and install the latest stuff, it will work fine unless the game dev is intentionally stupid nowadays.
Finally, the drivers being closed source is again moot because for a Windows->Linux transition, they aren’t really getting anything worse in terms of audits.
Maybe you missed the “I’d never buy a new NVIDIA card” thing and missed that the implication of my point was a windows to Linux transition? Idk, your response is very technically oriented.
Nvidia might not exist in a couple years, because of that financial collapse they’re about to cause
And ruining the cost of everything including ram, putting small hardware producers of everything from computer cases to their own cards out of business, etc. Nobody with a brain would deal with those fucking losers now, and nobody with a heart would tolerate them in a build.
If you think Nvidia will stop existing but AMD or Intel of all companies survive you live under a rock on the dark side of the moon. Same goes for rising costs of everything because of AI. Nvidia, AMD and Intel are all the same here. It makes no sense so many people differentiate here. Like, do you guys not pay any attention at all? If anything Intel is much worse than the other two because it directly answers to the orange’s fascist regime. They’re the last company I will trust my money with.
Yeah. I think Nvidia will be fine. The way I see it, AI either keeps scaling, and Nvidia makes money, or AI collapses, and Nvidia gets to sell a buttload of GPUs to a market segment that has been priced out of upgrading their hardware for the past few years and are desperate for affordable upgrades, and on top of that Nvidia I’m sure has negotiated some kind of payout if their AI customers don’t take delivery of the hardware they are contracted for, so Nvidia gets to double-dip on the equipment they’ve produced. Kind of a win-win for them.
They might survive. I don’t think they’ll be fine in any situation where they’re forced to return to the consumer market.
There’s a lot of ridiculously circular financing* here, and if there’s any insistence that money isn’t just completely nonsense bullshit here, some heads are gonna need to roll.
*okay so Alice takes out a hundred dollar lease from Bob. Bob goes to a bank and uses that as collateral to get a two hundred dollar lease from Carol. Carol takes that to the bank and uses it as collateral to get a loan for a thousand dollar lease from Alice who uses that as collateral to get a 5000 dollar loan from Bob, who… Tl:;Dr: nvidia’s standing on a financial house of cards and betting on a bailout that makes the whole of 08 look like nothing.
For a long time, Intel was the only GPU manufacturer that worked just as well on Linux as it did on Windows. The problem was that they only made integrated graphics, so it was useless for gaming.
Arc was their first attempt at a discrete PCIe GPU. The Linux community had the expectation that Linux would be a first-class citizen. IIRC it missed the bar, but it wasn’t horrible.
By the time this all happened, AMD was hitting performance parity between Windows and Linux. You’ll notice in the steam hardware survey that AMD is the undisputable king of Linux.
If Arc is now working well on SteamOS, it’s probably worth re-evaluating.
For a long time, easily a decade now, Radeon drivers work better under Linux than Windows: https://dolphin-emu.org/blog/2013/09/26/dolphin-emulator-and-opengl-drivers-hall-fameshame/
Intel also has way better hardware support than AMD, for some reason.
On Linux, over amd there isn’t as much of a direct reason unless you’re also gaming off an arc based igpu media server. Over Nvidia, it’s b cause nvidias Linux experience is more compromised than Intel/amd (it’s not 0 but you make more concessions on top of the ones that inherently come with Linux)