• Zorque@lemmy.world
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    2 days ago

    Mischaracterizing this as religious fervor ignores reality. These people are power-hungry nationalists at best.

    • Jankatarch@lemmy.world
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      16 hours ago

      I hate how people try to paint it as “both sides fighting for their religion and holy land, look at these silly people” when in reality it’s palestinians trying to defend themselves from fascist murderers backed by US government.

    • Snowies@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      Your dismissal is empathetic but inaccurate.

      These people literally believe they’ve retaken the “holy land” (when Britain helped them invade Palestine in the mid 1900s).

      Many abrahamic worshippers believe these are the prophesized end times, especially in Israel.

      Religion is at the core of many conflicts in the Middle East, especially in the levant.

      When it’s not at the core, it’s still is in a way — because it tells people sacrificing their life is just a temporary speed bump in their existence, one which will make the road after it way more pleasant and rewarding.

      • Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca
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        1 day ago

        You must be from the US applying that lens and reducing the topic to such a simplistic lens that has been propagated by both the US and Israeli governments only.

        Many abrahamic worshippers believe these are the prophesized end times, especially in Israel.

        Nope, only US Evangelicalism specifically preaches this ridiculous type of world-ending prophecy.

        Zionism was an inherently secular movement, but to align all of the other Jewish organizations under their movement with a stronger argument, they’ve defined their goals to be “jewish” in identity AND religion. Otherwise an African location would have been a more serious option.

        It’s not religious belief that is driving conflict in the middle east, it is religious tribalism (and of course imperialism). And there’s a world of difference.

        Because someone could be secular and of that religion, but it doesn’t mean that they would escape harm from other tribes or not have some patronage and loyalty to their tribe. Like Al-Assad in Syria, which as a country was religiously secular by law but was heavily biased towards the Aalawites.

        • Snowies@lemmy.zip
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          1 day ago

          “It’s not religious belief it’s religious tribalism”

          Ahh yes, religious tribalism. Famously able to exist without religious belief.

          • Rat_in_a_hat@lemmy.ca
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            1 day ago

            Yes, tribalism can exist without belief and can even be described as an ethnicity in itself (like Judaism). Unless you willingly glossed over the fact that someone can be secular but still have cultural/familial ties towards the tribe.

            It’s not a very smart thing to oversimplify with thought terminating exercises.

            • Snowies@lemmy.zip
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              1 day ago

              You’re oversimplifying commitment.

              Religious belief is required for religious tribalism, otherwise it’s not religious tribalism, it’s some other form of tribalism.

              You said it was religious tribalism.

              • Zorque@lemmy.world
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                17 hours ago

                The tribalism is the important part, not the religious. Just because your view is so narrow that you only see issues with one aspect of anything does not mean that it’s the driving cause of every problem you see.