You definitely interpret people wanting the Iranian people to succeed vs the Iranian regime. Good on you for getting the nuance completely correct without a single ounce of error on your part. Terrific job.
This is the regime all these Iran apologists on Lemmy are rooting for
No one is rooting for this regime to succeed. We are rooting for the innocent citizens who were killed by an illegal American invasion and also believe that Iran doesn’t deserve to be invaded illegally.
Nope. Just got here. But this thread alone destroys your theory. Not to mention your cherry picked comments that apparently means everyone supports Iran.
If everyone on Lemmy supports Iran, why do you support Iran?
Since you cant decypher sarcasm (you cant seem to make sense of it, you admitted), your premise is “people want the iranian regime to succeed” which is a straw man. You need to do a steel man instead. You have no founded argument because you chose to do a straw man instead of a steel man.
If you have any trouble interpreting or comprehending that let me know.
I never said such a thing, so maybe it is your own understanding that is flawed: I said that what you said was nonsense, while also being sarcastic, i.e. ”sarcastic nonsense”.
And no, I’ve met actual –not straw but flesh and bones– people on here who said Iran were the good guys, as well as Hamas and that the October 7 attacks were justified.
So maybe, if you want to have a normal discussion, next time don’t start out by acting like a massive jerk.
How many have you found to say “all these” iran regime apologists? Give me the huge number you have found. Whats the percentage of political comments on the iran war on lemmy that confirms your assertion that you claim is not flawed at all. Surely you have copious amounts of comments you can definitely say there is no nuance and unequivocally want the regime to win over the people of iran winning. Especially when Iran is just defending itself from aggressors.
Until you do that, you haven’t done shit. I will act however I want. I dont care about your feelings, I demand you to defend your assertions with facts and data. But you fail to provide it time and time again. You are a straw manning and have no ability to attempt a steel man.
You gave two earlier and one was just a dude from turkey saying “go iran!”
I dont know if counting is your strong suit, but seeing two comments is not a lot, certainly not enough to warrant “all these”
People are not rooting for Iran, but more like everyone knows attacking Iran is illegal and distraction from the Epstein file. This made Iran look like a less shitty looking shit.
Yeah but OP is similar to those who were against Israel bombing Gaza as being “anti-semetic”. If you think Iran shouldn’t be invaded by America Illegally, you clearly defend and support the Iranian regime.
Literally single context / single brain cell thinking. Not a complex thought in that head.
Cool. So Iran supports and donates to Terrorist organizations. That’s 100% true.
America straight up skips the middle man and does the terrorism themselves. One of the first targets the USA bombed was an elementary school in Iran. Why fund terrorism when you can just do it yourself?
One of the first targets the USA bombed was an elementary school in Iran.
Do you really think they did that knowingly? It was the greatest single PR loss of the whole war for them. Who knows, could be that that one horrible mistake made them lose the whole thing.
Iranian backed terrorists do the shit they do knowingly for 100% sure.
Even if consequences may be as shitty, intent matters.
It was targeted, so yes. It was to put pressure on the Iranian government from the start by killing children and innocents first instead of military targets.
Last I checked, the USA has a rather long track record of bombing civilians to pressure government surrender.
Apparently you’re trying your very best to defend Iran here with multiple comments under mine. And nowhere have I said people were rooting for women to be lashed, my dear straw man. I said they were rooting for the regime.
And what is the difference between them and the other countries in the Persian Gulf that leads Trump to regard some as friends and others as enemies? 🤔
I spent my formative years living in a pretty poor small town that is disaster prone where I woke up in my bedroom being flooded. The adults in the house love watching primetime news and thus at an early age I am exposed to politics and news about murders and so on. It’s not that I don’t care, I really do because my parents and having been raised Catholic taught me empathy, but the wars and killings (although I’m aware that the rate of homicide is gradually decreasing over the course of human history) has become non-news to me. So I have been made aware early in life that not everything is always roses. There are something’s one cannot have control of but i participate in things I could change like with protests, even if it’s little. But broadly speaking, I am desensitised of the news on the conflicts in Middle East or Africa. So when the market reacts, I’m like: “how are you guys not used to it?”
Over 120,000 killed by America in Iraq and estimated over 1 million indirectly dead because of the invasion. An estimated over 200,000 Gazans killed by Israel (much more than the official numbers, as those pretty much stopped going up after Israel blew up the Hospitals in Gaza which is where the bodies were officially counted)
vs
Iranian star Parastoo Ahmadi reportedly sentenced to 74 lashes for singing without hijab
The Iranian “Regime” is so much less evil than the American “Regime” and the Israeli “Regime” that it’s not even comparable.
People aren’t rooting for the Iranian “Regime”, they’re rooting against the American and Israeli “Regimes”, same logic as we are told again and again by American Liberals for why people should vote Democrat because it’s the Lesser Evil to stop the greater one, only in this case the difference in evilness as measured by body county between these Regimes is far larger than even the difference in evilness Democrats and Republicans in the US.
It makes far more sense to root for the lesser evil “Regime” against the more evil “Regimes” in this case than it does to vote Democrat in the US to stop the Republicans because even the Republicans don’t just murder hundreds of thousands more and get millions killed as collateral damage more than the Democrats.
The Iranian “Regime” is so much less evil than the American “Regime” and the Israeli “Regime” that it’s not even comparable.
At least make an honest comparison when you say that.
Comparing decades of events by US and Israel to one event in Iran as if it’s not a brutal theocratic authoritarian regime, is very dishonest.
That’s not to say the US and Israel should’ve invaded, fuck no, but at least be honest about it.
Literally the only way to make just the Israeli “Regime” seem less murderous than the Iranian one is by cheery-picking a “from date” that excludes most of the Genocide in Gaza whilst including the recent violent repression in Iran and a “to date” that excludes Israel’s current invasion of Lebanon and the Israeli participation in attacking Iran.
Israel has been way more murderous than Iran in pretty much any time frame you chose within the last 5 decades unless you’re activelly cherry-picking start and end dates to make it seem otherwise.
As nasty as the Iranian Regime is, next to the Genocidal White Supremacist Regime in Israel they’re pussycats - their respective body counts aren’t even in the same dimension.
You are right when it comes to body count comparisons with the US, though, as the last big mass murdering done by the US ended in 2021 (Afghanistan) though the country activelly supported the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.
For the US the “is it the same Regime” logics applies, IMHO - have the political systems and general political stance when it comes to foreign intervention really changed for the better in the US. As far as I can tell, it has not. That being the case, then it makes sense to point at the past sins of the Regime in America even if from a decade or two ago and say “this is the kind of people they are” because that’s still how American political structures operate and that’s still how much the American Public cares about those the American Military murders abroad, same as it would make sense if for example the NAZIs were still in Government in Germany to keep pointing out at the Holocaust (which was almost a century ago) as an example of the kind of people the NAZIs are, but since the NAZIs are not in power in Germany and it’s an entirelly different “Regime” it makes no sense at all to point at the Holocaust as representative of the character of present day Germany and its Government.
So, has the US really changed when it comes to how much Americans (both in power and public opinion) care about the lives of those outside America or about American Militarism?
From the outside, it doesn’t at all look like it: America is still hyper-militarist, most of the American Public care very little about the lives of those abroad and both the last US Governments either supported mass killings abroad, most notably with Biden sending Israel 2000lb bombs - which have massive collateral damaga - to be used to bomb the denselly populate Gaza, and then Trump continued support for Israel, randomly droned boats of the South American coast and bombed Iran with such recklessnes and disregard to civilian lives that they let Grok choose targest and blew up a school full of children.
Please note that I’m not trying to defend Israel or the US at all, I’m not trying to disprove or deny their imperialistic and genocidal actions.
But don’t try to reduce Iran’s brutalities in order to make that point. It cheapens the discussion and makes it easier to ignore your actual point. That’s what you did in the comment I responded to.
The people coming here slandering as “Iran apologists” those who would rather that the nation which is both the least evil and the victim of this war won rather than the vastly most evil aggressor nations, and do so even using the very typical Manufacturing Consent technique of calling the Iranian Government a “Regime” whilst not doing the same for the governments of the more aggressor nations, are the ones doing all the “brutality reducing” - they’re literally misrepresenting a position which is against the by far most murderous of sides in this war as being instead a position of support for the government structure of the other side.
Doing so in the context of the news of a court decision in Iran which, whilst ridiculous, will not result in anybody getting killed, is just taking the piss, especially if you compare it with the workings of the judicial system in one of the opposing countries in this war, the US, were every day the police just in average kills 3 - 4 people.
That post stinks of Hasbara propaganda. It stinks of the kind of specious “argument” that warmongering Nationalists make against those who do not support the actions of their nation. (Curiously, if you look at the evolution of up-votes and down-votes to it, it “curiously” got a lot of upvotes upfront right around daytime in Tel-Aviv and is getting more downvotes since)
I replied to that and then you came and took umbrage at me pointing out how from all sides of that war, the most outrageously murderous is the one of the American and Israeli Regimes (which explains why people side with Iran in this War)
took umbrage at me pointing out how from all sides of that war, the most outrageously murderous is the one of the American and Israeli Regimes
As I tried to explain, I didn’t take umbrage at that. Again I am not disputing Israel’s or America’s brutality whatsoever. Nowhere am I saying I want America and Israel to win. In fact, I don’t. Fuck them. I want the Iranians to come out on top. I agree that they’re the lesser evil.
What I took issue with is your false equivalence of comparing decades worth of brutality of the American and Israeli regimes with 1 specific Iranian incident. You don’t need that kind of dishonesty to say that Americans and Israelis are worse.
Well, it would probably have been fairer to point out the peak of the brutality of the Iranian Government which seems to have been their recent violent suppression of demonstrations, but it’s unclear how many people actually got killed in it because the information we have about it here in the West is certainly tainted with propaganda (mainly American) so any number I quoted would almost certainly be wrong and an exageration and I didn’t really want to respond to what looked like a Hasbara post by quoting American or Israeli propaganda figures about Iran.
That said, even the largest number I saw of persons killed by the Iranian Authorities in their recent violent crackdown - 35,000 - is less than the number of people officially confirmed by Palestinian Authorities of those killed by Israel alone, in Gaza alone in just the first 3 months of their latest Genocide: even what is almost certainly the wildest exaggeration from their enemies about the how murderous the Iranian Government is pale in comparison with how murderous the US and Israel are.
Indeed, even the largest numbers from Iran already shows that the US and Israel are worse. That’s why I said what I said. You don’t need to cherrypick one event Iran did to make the US and Israel look worse. It looks dishonest if you do and people won’t take it seriously
Nice use of logical fallacies. Whataboutism and straw man in one comment.
But let’s stick to the facts:
2019:
On 23 December, Reuters reported that a death toll provided by three unnamed Iranian interior ministry officials was “about 1,500” including “at least 17 teenagers and about 400 women”.
2022:
At least 551 people, including 68 minors, had been killed as a result of the government’s intervention in the protests, as of 15 September 2023.
2026:
The Iranian government has acknowledged more than 3,000 dead, and the US-based organisation HRANA (Human Rights Activists News Agency), whose figures have been reliable during previous crackdowns, says it has verified more than 6,000 dead and has more than 17,000 more recorded deaths under investigation, giving a possible total of about 22,000. Other estimates from doctors based outside Iran range up to 33,000 or more.
And then we haven’t even talked about the terrorist attacks by Iran’s proxies.
So no, dear Iran fanboy. They’re not much less evil.
Sure mate, Israel and the US are not at all the most murderous nations on the face of the planet of this century to the point that a fucking Theocracy are vritably pussycats in comparison, and instead it must be me being an “Iran fanboy”.
That very tall pile of bones you stand on is not a moral high ground.
Ahh yes, mr mass murder apologist. Let’s compare how many people they have killed. Because it’s not human lives we’re talking about but data points to win our meaningless internet discussion.
Somehow I don’t think I’m the one dying on a hill made out of skeletons….
There are no good guys in this war will always be true, no matter how much you try to twist it.
This is the regime all these Iran apologists on Lemmy are rooting for. There are no good guys in this war.
You definitely interpret people wanting the Iranian people to succeed vs the Iranian regime. Good on you for getting the nuance completely correct without a single ounce of error on your part. Terrific job.
Try to find an actual mistake in my reasoning rather than sarcastic nonsense
No one is rooting for this regime to succeed. We are rooting for the innocent citizens who were killed by an illegal American invasion and also believe that Iran doesn’t deserve to be invaded illegally.
No one? Really? Have you been to Lemmy before?
Why shouldn’t we hope that people resist the extreme violence of imperialism?
Nope. Just got here. But this thread alone destroys your theory. Not to mention your cherry picked comments that apparently means everyone supports Iran.
If everyone on Lemmy supports Iran, why do you support Iran?
Everyone? Quote me please
Your premise is flawed. You can’t have a founded argument with a flawed premise.
You still can’t do it…. Maybe try to find out how it is flawed
Since you cant decypher sarcasm (you cant seem to make sense of it, you admitted), your premise is “people want the iranian regime to succeed” which is a straw man. You need to do a steel man instead. You have no founded argument because you chose to do a straw man instead of a steel man.
If you have any trouble interpreting or comprehending that let me know.
I never said such a thing, so maybe it is your own understanding that is flawed: I said that what you said was nonsense, while also being sarcastic, i.e. ”sarcastic nonsense”.
And no, I’ve met actual –not straw but flesh and bones– people on here who said Iran were the good guys, as well as Hamas and that the October 7 attacks were justified.
So maybe, if you want to have a normal discussion, next time don’t start out by acting like a massive jerk.
“all these”
How many have you found to say “all these” iran regime apologists? Give me the huge number you have found. Whats the percentage of political comments on the iran war on lemmy that confirms your assertion that you claim is not flawed at all. Surely you have copious amounts of comments you can definitely say there is no nuance and unequivocally want the regime to win over the people of iran winning. Especially when Iran is just defending itself from aggressors.
Until you do that, you haven’t done shit. I will act however I want. I dont care about your feelings, I demand you to defend your assertions with facts and data. But you fail to provide it time and time again. You are a straw manning and have no ability to attempt a steel man.
You gave two earlier and one was just a dude from turkey saying “go iran!”
I dont know if counting is your strong suit, but seeing two comments is not a lot, certainly not enough to warrant “all these”
Ahhh yes, acting like a massive narcissist jerk again I see, ‘cause that worked so well last time…
I won’t deal with obtuse idiots who can’t have a normal discussion, so I will say: go out and have a look. You’re on the source itself.
People are not rooting for Iran, but more like everyone knows attacking Iran is illegal and distraction from the Epstein file. This made Iran look like a less shitty looking shit.
It’s “Turd” vs “Turd Sandwish of Turd on Turd”
Nobody wants to eat either whilst strictly speaking there is no denying that the former is less shit than the latter.
Who was rooting for the regime? Who?
I think people were rooting against the US/Israeli aggression, not particularly for the Irani regime.
Of course! Tell that to the guy I was replying to
Yeah but OP is similar to those who were against Israel bombing Gaza as being “anti-semetic”. If you think Iran shouldn’t be invaded by America Illegally, you clearly defend and support the Iranian regime.
Literally single context / single brain cell thinking. Not a complex thought in that head.
Well, you have one commenter under mine already.
But look up the posts about any Irani successes in the war. They’re al like: “way to go Iran, keep it coming!”
Edit: two examples: here and here.
So two extremely cherry picked users = the entire Lemmy community?
You don’t got a lot going on in that head of yours, eh?
Where did I say it was the entire community LOL?
Nice straw man though
And how, in your mind, does that say it’s the entire community?
Shitty, aboslutely.
How many American school children have Iran bombed?
Dont try to give America a free pass by diluting the narrative.
Iran has long supported terrorist organizations that have killed many innocent people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_and_state-sponsored_terrorism
Nobody gets a free pass.
Cool. So Iran supports and donates to Terrorist organizations. That’s 100% true.
America straight up skips the middle man and does the terrorism themselves. One of the first targets the USA bombed was an elementary school in Iran. Why fund terrorism when you can just do it yourself?
Do you really think they did that knowingly? It was the greatest single PR loss of the whole war for them. Who knows, could be that that one horrible mistake made them lose the whole thing.
Iranian backed terrorists do the shit they do knowingly for 100% sure.
Even if consequences may be as shitty, intent matters.
It was targeted, so yes. It was to put pressure on the Iranian government from the start by killing children and innocents first instead of military targets.
Last I checked, the USA has a rather long track record of bombing civilians to pressure government surrender.
See: Japan.
Please cite the part where I gave America a free pass.
Please cite those Lemmy users rooting for women to be lashed for singing
Apparently you’re trying your very best to defend Iran here with multiple comments under mine. And nowhere have I said people were rooting for women to be lashed, my dear straw man. I said they were rooting for the regime.
I am 14 and this is deep
Good for you man
There will be protests and I’m hopeful she won’t actually face punishment.
You can totally be against a regime that tortures it’s citizens, and still wish that same country doesn’t have it’s schools bombed by outside sources.
Obviously, that is what I want as well, as does every sane person on the planet. But those are not the ones I am talking about.
And what is the difference between them and the other countries in the Persian Gulf that leads Trump to regard some as friends and others as enemies? 🤔
What does that have to do with anything? When was Whataboutism ever an argument?
This is why I’ve emotionally divested myself from anything involving the middle east. No matter who you support you are supporting evil.
All I care about now is the economy specifically getting that strait opened back up. Right and wrong takes a back seat when nobody is right.
I spent my formative years living in a pretty poor small town that is disaster prone where I woke up in my bedroom being flooded. The adults in the house love watching primetime news and thus at an early age I am exposed to politics and news about murders and so on. It’s not that I don’t care, I really do because my parents and having been raised Catholic taught me empathy, but the wars and killings (although I’m aware that the rate of homicide is gradually decreasing over the course of human history) has become non-news to me. So I have been made aware early in life that not everything is always roses. There are something’s one cannot have control of but i participate in things I could change like with protests, even if it’s little. But broadly speaking, I am desensitised of the news on the conflicts in Middle East or Africa. So when the market reacts, I’m like: “how are you guys not used to it?”
Reason cannot be on the side of those who act in contravention of international law.
vs
The Iranian “Regime” is so much less evil than the American “Regime” and the Israeli “Regime” that it’s not even comparable.
People aren’t rooting for the Iranian “Regime”, they’re rooting against the American and Israeli “Regimes”, same logic as we are told again and again by American Liberals for why people should vote Democrat because it’s the Lesser Evil to stop the greater one, only in this case the difference in evilness as measured by body county between these Regimes is far larger than even the difference in evilness Democrats and Republicans in the US.
It makes far more sense to root for the lesser evil “Regime” against the more evil “Regimes” in this case than it does to vote Democrat in the US to stop the Republicans because even the Republicans don’t just murder hundreds of thousands more and get millions killed as collateral damage more than the Democrats.
At least make an honest comparison when you say that. Comparing decades of events by US and Israel to one event in Iran as if it’s not a brutal theocratic authoritarian regime, is very dishonest.
That’s not to say the US and Israel should’ve invaded, fuck no, but at least be honest about it.
Literally the only way to make just the Israeli “Regime” seem less murderous than the Iranian one is by cheery-picking a “from date” that excludes most of the Genocide in Gaza whilst including the recent violent repression in Iran and a “to date” that excludes Israel’s current invasion of Lebanon and the Israeli participation in attacking Iran.
Israel has been way more murderous than Iran in pretty much any time frame you chose within the last 5 decades unless you’re activelly cherry-picking start and end dates to make it seem otherwise.
As nasty as the Iranian Regime is, next to the Genocidal White Supremacist Regime in Israel they’re pussycats - their respective body counts aren’t even in the same dimension.
You are right when it comes to body count comparisons with the US, though, as the last big mass murdering done by the US ended in 2021 (Afghanistan) though the country activelly supported the Israeli Genocide in Gaza.
For the US the “is it the same Regime” logics applies, IMHO - have the political systems and general political stance when it comes to foreign intervention really changed for the better in the US. As far as I can tell, it has not. That being the case, then it makes sense to point at the past sins of the Regime in America even if from a decade or two ago and say “this is the kind of people they are” because that’s still how American political structures operate and that’s still how much the American Public cares about those the American Military murders abroad, same as it would make sense if for example the NAZIs were still in Government in Germany to keep pointing out at the Holocaust (which was almost a century ago) as an example of the kind of people the NAZIs are, but since the NAZIs are not in power in Germany and it’s an entirelly different “Regime” it makes no sense at all to point at the Holocaust as representative of the character of present day Germany and its Government.
So, has the US really changed when it comes to how much Americans (both in power and public opinion) care about the lives of those outside America or about American Militarism?
From the outside, it doesn’t at all look like it: America is still hyper-militarist, most of the American Public care very little about the lives of those abroad and both the last US Governments either supported mass killings abroad, most notably with Biden sending Israel 2000lb bombs - which have massive collateral damaga - to be used to bomb the denselly populate Gaza, and then Trump continued support for Israel, randomly droned boats of the South American coast and bombed Iran with such recklessnes and disregard to civilian lives that they let Grok choose targest and blew up a school full of children.
Please note that I’m not trying to defend Israel or the US at all, I’m not trying to disprove or deny their imperialistic and genocidal actions.
But don’t try to reduce Iran’s brutalities in order to make that point. It cheapens the discussion and makes it easier to ignore your actual point. That’s what you did in the comment I responded to.
The people coming here slandering as “Iran apologists” those who would rather that the nation which is both the least evil and the victim of this war won rather than the vastly most evil aggressor nations, and do so even using the very typical Manufacturing Consent technique of calling the Iranian Government a “Regime” whilst not doing the same for the governments of the more aggressor nations, are the ones doing all the “brutality reducing” - they’re literally misrepresenting a position which is against the by far most murderous of sides in this war as being instead a position of support for the government structure of the other side.
Doing so in the context of the news of a court decision in Iran which, whilst ridiculous, will not result in anybody getting killed, is just taking the piss, especially if you compare it with the workings of the judicial system in one of the opposing countries in this war, the US, were every day the police just in average kills 3 - 4 people.
That post stinks of Hasbara propaganda. It stinks of the kind of specious “argument” that warmongering Nationalists make against those who do not support the actions of their nation. (Curiously, if you look at the evolution of up-votes and down-votes to it, it “curiously” got a lot of upvotes upfront right around daytime in Tel-Aviv and is getting more downvotes since)
I replied to that and then you came and took umbrage at me pointing out how from all sides of that war, the most outrageously murderous is the one of the American and Israeli Regimes (which explains why people side with Iran in this War)
As I tried to explain, I didn’t take umbrage at that. Again I am not disputing Israel’s or America’s brutality whatsoever. Nowhere am I saying I want America and Israel to win. In fact, I don’t. Fuck them. I want the Iranians to come out on top. I agree that they’re the lesser evil.
What I took issue with is your false equivalence of comparing decades worth of brutality of the American and Israeli regimes with 1 specific Iranian incident. You don’t need that kind of dishonesty to say that Americans and Israelis are worse.
Well, it would probably have been fairer to point out the peak of the brutality of the Iranian Government which seems to have been their recent violent suppression of demonstrations, but it’s unclear how many people actually got killed in it because the information we have about it here in the West is certainly tainted with propaganda (mainly American) so any number I quoted would almost certainly be wrong and an exageration and I didn’t really want to respond to what looked like a Hasbara post by quoting American or Israeli propaganda figures about Iran.
That said, even the largest number I saw of persons killed by the Iranian Authorities in their recent violent crackdown - 35,000 - is less than the number of people officially confirmed by Palestinian Authorities of those killed by Israel alone, in Gaza alone in just the first 3 months of their latest Genocide: even what is almost certainly the wildest exaggeration from their enemies about the how murderous the Iranian Government is pale in comparison with how murderous the US and Israel are.
Indeed, even the largest numbers from Iran already shows that the US and Israel are worse. That’s why I said what I said. You don’t need to cherrypick one event Iran did to make the US and Israel look worse. It looks dishonest if you do and people won’t take it seriously
The Israelis just shot a 3 year old in the head
Yes, I’m not disputing any of that.
What are you saying
An American cop just
killedmurdered a 1yo in Mississippi a few days ago.Really struggling to find the difference here.
Yeah but have you considered that Iran is brutal and theocratic? What’s that you say?
Nice use of logical fallacies. Whataboutism and straw man in one comment.
But let’s stick to the facts:
2019:
2022:
2026:
And then we haven’t even talked about the terrorist attacks by Iran’s proxies.
So no, dear Iran fanboy. They’re not much less evil.
Sure mate, Israel and the US are not at all the most murderous nations on the face of the planet of this century to the point that a fucking Theocracy are vritably pussycats in comparison, and instead it must be me being an “Iran fanboy”.
That very tall pile of bones you stand on is not a moral high ground.
Ahh yes, mr mass murder apologist. Let’s compare how many people they have killed. Because it’s not human lives we’re talking about but data points to win our meaningless internet discussion.
Somehow I don’t think I’m the one dying on a hill made out of skeletons….
There are no good guys in this war will always be true, no matter how much you try to twist it.