- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
- cross-posted to:
- world@lemmy.world
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Accounts based in Russia posted lies about the motive for the arson attacks targeting Starmer, which were spread by figures such as far-right anti-Islam activist Tommy Robinson.
Wow… No way… The supposedly grass roots, organic rise of far right sentiment is being driven by foreign nations hostile to us and who have been found performing acts of sabotage before and funding far right political leaders?
Shocker…
These damn brown foreigners ought to go back to their country!
- Amit types in India
But seriously, a lot of supposed white far right in social media turned out to be paid trolls based from abroad.
Putin trying to create Nazis so he can relive his glory days of being a clerk in Nazi defeating USSR
Funded by musk
The supposedly grass roots, organic rise of far right sentiment
British right wing nationalism has been around for a while
It has, absolutely. But that doesn’t mean it isn’t being boosted both by the Russian state seeking to destabilize those supporting Ukraine, and the Fascists in America who see multi-cultural societies as things to be undermined.
Far right movements are usually started by the domestic bourgeoisie in an attempt to counter rising class consciousness and left-wing solidarity. It’s certainly possible that Russia is amplifying those voices, but the root of the problem is, as always, the aristocracy.
Really don’t think so. Much more likely to be a warning from the genociders
Just FYI, wild eyed conspiracy mongering “The Jews did it!” with no evidence like this is what lets the Israelis get away with deflecting criticism of their genocide as antisemitism.
Also behind the arson in Belfast.
Farage riots. You’re partly correct though. Reform UK loves Putin, so it would make sense in a way
Second Farage riots
They were pulled by Tommy Robinson who is currently in Russia. Reform UK doesn’t operate in Northern Ireland
I call bullshit. Russia has more ta gain from starmer than any, he’s throwing the country into the arms of Putin’s Reform tools.
The 22-year-old Ukrainian builder had been weaponised to target the UK’s head of government. But by who?
…
The handler EL, who directed Lavrynovych, offered Russian citizenship in return for other attacks and glorified President Vladimir Putin, messages the BBC has uncovered show.
We have identified evidence suggesting that EL is a young Russian diplomat, schooled in information warfare by spies and propagandists, who is close to the highest levels of power in Moscow. His name is Evgeny Lyukshin. He is 23 and the son of a senior official.
It’s plausible. Russian intelligence services have adopted the same basic tactics used by the CIA, the FBI, SIS, Mossad, and similar services to cultivate extremists as tools of regime change.
And we’ve got a wealth of evidence to support the theory that these agencies use the Internet as a vector of that radicalization.
Whether you believe the BBC (an organ of state media) when it pins the blame on one spy agency over another? I guess that depends on how much you trust them.
My question, is why would Russian target him? Starmer is doing everything possible to throw the country to Reform. I call bullshit.
Secret agencies are alike in that respect: they reveal truth partially and only when it’s beneficial, else they can create a narrative weakly supported by coincidences and ‘evidence’ that wouldn’t hold in most courts.
What’s the point of attacking the useless Stammer?
Because, for all his faults, he’s critical of Russia.
Russia would much rather have someone at the helm more amenable to Russian politics, seeking to undermine the European help that Ukraine has been getting from other nations.
And they’re getting impatient, running out of money and can’t wait around for the next UK general election.
Even so, get rid of Starmer and it’s not like Corbyn is going to come back and be labour leader again.
Corbyn was and is no more pro-Russia than Starmer, despite the fact that a lot of anti-Corbyn propaganda painted him that way back when he was in charge of the party.
Corbyn was much better than Starmer overall, but his reaction to Ukraine, and Russia more broadly, was weak AF. He was calling for a ceasefire and addressing Russia’s “legitimate grievances” then they were on the outskirts of Kyiv. If the fighting had stopped then and the Russians could dig in it would have been the end of Ukraine as an independent state.
Exactly, Starmer is the best thing that could’ve happened to Russia and their Reform tools. He’s throwing the country into his pet fascists’ arms. This is bullshit, and the BBC, already bad enough in being used by powerful groups, had another purge just last year for correctly laying out the US president’s bullshit around the 2020 election.
Seriously. Like most European leaders, he is just a puppet of the Ziocons.
Bad things happenning in Britain couldn’t possibly by the product of homegrown, 100% British people, because Britons are a superior people lead by superior people and thus above such things unlike inferior non-Brits who aren’t led by Oxbridge and Public School Educated scions of the country’s “best” families.
No, the fault for bad things happenning in Britain is always of filthy foreigners even thought their influence in Britain is miniscule compared to the influence of, for example, Far-Right tabloids owned by British billionaires who pay no taxes in Britain at all thanks to the 100% British and probably unique in the World Non-Dom Tax Regulation.
Curiously both the Far-Right and the Hard-Right (which is what New Labour is nowadays as displayed in their enacting of anti-demonstration legislation, unwavering support for a White Supremacist state and their Genocide, and emprisioning of anti-Genocide demonstrators as “Terrorist supporters”) agree in always blaming foreigners for bad things in Britain, it’s just that the furthest to the right of them blames “immigrants” whilst the slightly-less-right one blames “foreign interference”.
Obviously the BBC parrots this crap - I mean they’re some of the hardest peddlers of Propaganda using Manufacturing Consent techniques and for decades have been pushing British Nationalism and Delusions Of Grandeur, by spinning international affairs stories by for example making it sound like the British PM was looked up to as a World Leader in some international conference next to the likes of the American and Chinese leaders or reporting some stupid shit happenning in some small place in, say, Germany, with a “this would never happen here” spin.
“Britain is above such things” is usually the BBC’s spin on bad things, even when those bad things happen in Britain.
Unsurprisingly, Brexit did happen even though neither the elites nor most of the middle-class believed it could happen - turns out Brits are no better than the rest and no less prone to seriously fucking their own country up.
You think the BBC named a high-ranking Russian man due to xenophobia because it’s run by the upper classes? And Tommy Robinson? Surely they’d not want to blame him for anything if sociopathic xenophobia and painting threats as only coming from outside the UK was their goal?
Do you believe they invented the messages written in Russian praising Putin? Or is that just a weird, random coincidence?
I remember when the BBC digitally altered a picture of Corbyn to wear a Soviet cap on his head and used it as a background for a news program and spread the “anti-semitism” slander against him (which was so extreme that at one point a Jewish Holocaust Survivor was accused of anti-semitism for the words he said in a Conference For Palestine to try to taint Corbyn by association) to bring him down from the Labour Party leadership.
I remember when British politicians and press gleefully spread the “Weapons Of Mass Destruction” lie justifying British military participation in the Iraq War,
Also the idea that Tommy Robinson is only funded by Russia and thus controlled by them and not by American fatcats (given that some years ago Steve Bannon came to Europe with money from the Koch Brothers very openly to “fund far-right parties” as well as it was Americans who were funding Cambridge Analitica to do Social Medial manipulation in favor of Leave), and local rich cunts, is very much the whitewashing I was talking about.
I’ll wait for the results of an inquest led by a Senior Judge to make up my mind about Russia having in fact supported that cunt Tommy Robinson in this.
If the BBC thinks Russia was behind the arson attacks on properties and a car connected to the prime minister, I will believe the BBC, for two reasons:
- The BBC is a reliable reporter of facts
- Russia has a pattern of this sort of behaviour (like when they paid Brits to burn a warehouse in London, and when they brought a chemical weapon to the UK which killed an innocent British woman)
The BBC is a reliable reporter of facts
False
Russia has a pattern of this sort of behaviour
Broadly speaking, spy agencies have been known to operate in this fashion. So it’s a believable allegation.
But was this guy radicalized by the Russian secret service to target Starmer? Or the British secret service, as further agitation against Russia? Or the Americans or Ukrainians, towards similar ends?
Idk. The BBC isn’t exactly above playing it’s own role in the espionage game.
The BBC is not reliable.
My experience with them is that they get the facts right.
I suggest that you go check the “Manufacturing Consent” Lemmy community if you think the BBC is a “reliable reporter of facts”. If you speak a foreign language I would also suggest you compare the BBC reporting of foreign affairs with the coverage of the same events in the Press elsewhere in Europe (which, by the way, is how I noticed just how must they spinned their news coverage back when I lived in Britain as an immigrant).
As for your second line and judging by the links you provided, you “know” that “Russia has a pattern of this sort of behaviours” because the BBC told you so. In other words, that second line is logically a repetition of the first line.
The BBC is very elegant in their propaganda, almost never outright lying, but they definitelly do cherry-picking, spinning, biased framing, selective reporting and other more subtle forms of misinformation for the purpose of “opinion forming”.
I very keenly remember how Russia was blamed by pretty much all of the British press, including the BBC, for Brexit and then eventually came out that Cambridge Analytical were the ones doing most of the Social Network manipulation and they were being paid to do it by rich Americans, not Russia, so I’m logically incredibly skeptic when shit done in Britain by Britons is said by the British Press and British Politicians to be the fault of Russia, because that has the very same stink as the decades of “blame the EU for everything” by British Politicians and Press until Brexit and the “blame Russia” since.
The Public School Educated Elites that control power and the Press blaming foreigners in some way or other for the problems in Britain is self-serving and because it happens repeatedly it’s thus highly suspicious.
you “know” that “Russia has a pattern of this sort of behaviours” because the BBC told you so.
The BBC isn’t the only one reporting about these Russian “adventures”, you know? At some point you just have to realize that Russia is influencing people in multiple countries it perceives as enemies. This isn’t anything new.
I lived in Britain for over a decade.
Literally the only part of the British Press which is impeccably honest and hence trustworthy is the Private Eye, and they’re a weekly Satirical Magazine.
The rest are either billionaire-owned tabloids telling you all about how immigrants are both stealing people’s jobs AND AT THE SAME TIME living of benefits and how the poor are lazy, or managed by boards of people with Lord and Sir titles and populated by Public School Educated “Journalists” and commentators who often are very open about how they are “Opinion Makers” (i.e. they’re there to convince you to have certain opinions) - in other words, they’re at best “The Voice Of The British Upper Middle Class” and if you’ve ever personally known anybody from the upper echelons of British Society, their entire education is all about how the right thing to do is to tell people what they want to hear or that which makes you look good.
(More broadly, it is fucking shocking how posh boys are pretty much taught to be Sociopaths)
Some years ago a poll came out and in all of Europe the British Press was the least trusted by the locals.
Having lived in a couple of countries in Europe and speaking the language of all of them, in my experience the Press in Britain is the least trustworthy one with the most spin and biggest biases, especially when it comes to international affairs Britain In The World.
you “know” that “Russia has a pattern of this sort of behaviours” because the BBC told you so
No. Other reliable sources have also mentioned the stories I raised. Here is the UK police talking about the Russia-backed arson of a warehouse in London. And here on the UK government’s website you can find the report of the inquiry into the Salisbury poisonings (with a Russian chemical weapon) in 2018.
That inquiry which I mentioned was conducted by a senior judge, who concluded this:
Petrov, Boshirov and Fedotov were members of an operational team within the GRU – the Russian military intelligence agency responsible for foreign intelligence gathering. I am sure that, in conducting their attack on Sergei Skripal, they were acting on instructions. I have concluded that the operation to assassinate Sergei Skripal must have been authorised at the highest level, by President Putin.
Oh yeah, the Salisbury poisonings have more than enough evidence which was actually examined by a proper legal entity (not merelly the coppers).
It’s also literally the only case of Russian interference proven in the last couple of years and it wasn’t even against Britain, British Interests or Britons - it was an assassination of a Russian that happenned in Britain because that’s were he was living (though if I remember it correctly there were British victims though they were collateral damage rather than the target).
One case of the Russian State assassinating a Russia citizen in Britain, which was actually examined and confirmed by a proper legal entity, is not sufficient evidence to presume that every bad thing that happens in Britain against British Interests or Britons is done by Russia.
Mind you, I can understand how that highly publicized case (I was living in Britain at the time) convinced a lot of people that there was some kind of grand conspiracy targetting of Britain by Russia - most people (Britons or otherwise) don’t logically analyse these things, so its pretty easy for the local “opinion makers” to portray a single proven instance with massive press coverage as “evidence” of some grand conspiracy because if they don’t logically analyse things people tend to confuse “abundant and loud press coverage” with something being common and frequent (an error in human perception is very often exploited by politicians by making a mountain out of a molehill),
Have you got any proof that this was done by Brits, for homegrown reasons, and not by Russia? Or are you just speculating and making stuff up for… reasons?
Do you have actual proof confirmed by an independent source that this was done by Russia?
Occan’s Razor would lead us to conclude that what happens in a place is most likely the due to the locals (because they’re the ones there, they’re the ones with the most local knowledge and influence to make things happen and they’re the ones who care the most about it), so you need strong proof to support a claim which goes against the most simple explanation.
I’m not even saying it wasn’t for sure Russia - I don’t know for sure either way.
I’m saying that you can’t trust the British Politicians or the British Press when they claim that a bad thing that happenned in Britain is somehow the fault of foreigners because that’s self-serving (it exhonerates those same people or their mates of responsability) and there is a long history of those people blaming foreigners for all the shit that happenned in Britain, for example the decades of relentless Blame the EU leading to Brexit or the blaming of Russia for Brexit itself and then it turns out it was mainly orchestrated by Cambridge Analitica which is a British company and was being paid for it by Americans plus anybody with fucking eyes on their fucking face could have spotted just how much during the decade leading to the Referendum the local press gave extra high (when compared to, for example, Greenparty leaders) visibility to very much local cunts such as Nigel Farage.
My skepticism of the British Press and Politicians on this is logic because of their very long track record of relentlessly blaming foreigners for British problems.
Beware of russians bearing work.
Russia was responsible for me losing a slipper this morning.
Did it fall out the window?
No, Putin trained my dog to hide it
So your dog is Putin your slipper elsewhere ehh?
Don’t go russian to judgement.
Post from your .ml account, coward
I have no idea what does that even mean
Bullshit.
I don’t!
