Only speaking as a Canadian, but I highly doubt you’d have a president openly threatening the sovereignty of foreign nations, completely alienating your closest allies for over a century forcing them to stop trade with you, and overall make you an international laughing stock.
Sure you might still have gotten a war, but it’s everything else that is uniquely Trump.
I’m not sure why people like you feel so confident that some small segment of vocal lefties lost the democrats the election. They are such a small percentage of the actually voting population and strategic voting is just not how most people vote.
The reality is many democratic voters were simply not motivated to vote for an administration that was more interested in supporting a genocide than dealing with the riding cost of living. You can argue that’s stupid or irrational but that won’t affect how voters actually vote. You might as well be yelling at a brick wall. It won’t change anything.
The fact is that Biden, Kamala, and other high level members of the Democratic Party knew that supporting a genocide might cost them the election. They did it anyways. They cared more about Israel’s ability to bomb children than they cared about protecting the American people from a second Trump term. The blame lies entirely with them.
Most if not all of them were bots and right-wing trolls, operating with the objective of suppressing Democratic Party turnout. The remainder (if any) were just gullible.
Ah, but it’s not just those who voted this way. It’s more those who actively supported this idea and were pushing for people not to vote because of it. We’ll never have certainty about how much of an impact it made on the actual vote but I think any reasonable person would concede by this point that the consequences of the result they were advocating for have been much, much worse than just picking the lesser evil even if you believe that lesser evil allowed an unrestrained Israel to conduct genocide. I do think the facts contradict that claim anyway since we’ve seen Israel’s actions rise to a whole another level after Trump has truly let the Netanyahu government loose but even if that wasn’t the case there’s a lot more harm being done both domestically and abroad in addition to that all continuing.
It’s also not just the presidential election by the way, in a world where the House had been under Democratic control we’d probably have seen Trump limited in meaningful ways over the past year.
I’m not sure why people like you feel so confident that some small segment of vocal lefties lost the democrats the election. They are such a small percentage of the actually voting population and strategic voting is just not how most people vote.
Because then they’d have to confront the fact that there was whole list of popular (with everyone, not just the left) issues that the democrats where turning their noses up at, not just Kamala’s promise to keep Joe’s genocide going.
But it is funny how the anti-genocide folks are the ones they’re blaming the most for their defeat. No one is hissing at people who wanted single-payer health care for instance. Totally a real winning strategy and not just another smear job paid for by AIPAC.
Honestly, I think it comes down to a form of genocide apologia. I think most reasonable people might ask, “If Biden was willing to lie in order to help Israel carry out a genocide, why wouldn’t he or any of his associates lie in order to protect the corporate profits even if it meant American people would be murdered en masse?” At that point, voting for a democrat feels like choosing to get stabbed in the back so that you don’t get shot in the face. Sure, one might be better than the other but I don’t think anyone wants to be making that choice.
However, if you think your own life has a greater intrinsic value than the lives of people in Gaza you won’t see it the same way. Yeah maybe you would prefer if the Democrats didn’t help murder children abroad but that doesn’t mean they would do the same to you and your children.
Maybe it was the fact that Kamala was fake as hell, or maybe that the Democratic canvassers knocked on people’s doors (including mine) two dozen times before the election, even though I told them every. single. time. that I was voting for her.
Or hell, maybe it’s that she called Gen Z voters dumb after they clenched the 2022 midterms. Or maybe it’s the fact that they didn’t primary a candidate. They kept saying Biden was going to run again and then tried to use his popularity to force us to vote for her. I’m sorry, but that faded Obama magic doesn’t transfer from one candidate to another, especially when Biden was so-so at best with almost no charisma. I was already pissed that we got the rug pull with Bernie for Biden in 2020. To not even get a fucking primary for 2024 has left me beyond bitter.
Still, I voted for her and Fetterman. I will not vote for a candidate I don’t believe in again. At this point, I’m writing in a third-party name. If the establishment can’t learn, then let them burn. Don’t bother with whatever guilt trip of a response you might have. I’m sick of feckless leaders. I will always vote, but I won’t hold my nose for the establishment anymore. Fascism is here, and the ratcheting fuckers of the Democratic Party are useless. It’s just too bad. Trump is essentially burning the country to the ground, but the flames won’t hit the support beams until they can blame the Democrats, and, like always, it will work. Politics piss me off so much.
Yeah, my only advice is stay close to your family, friends, and community if you can. It’s pretty clear to me that Democratic Party officials have no real interest in fighting fascism so it really doesn’t make sense to put any hope in them. Luckily you don’t really have to.
Fascists by their own inflexible nature will eventually force people to fight back in meaningful ways. Any kind of bonds you create with other people can become the basis upon which organized resistance thrives, whatever that may look like. Even though it’s not really organizing, sometimes I think acts as simple as baking cookies for your neighbors does more to prepare for the fight against fascism than voting for a Democrat does. lol
talk to the dem leaders about their failure on that one. You would hope at least one of the parties would be against war crimes. Why werent the DNC? Rhetocial question: because they are irretrievably corrupt and cashed some AIPAC checks.
I think you’d best be mad at that corruption and not the voters put in an impossible spot because of it. Unless you are dishonest, a warmonger or zionist, in which case go on with your prattle.
You miss the point. You think Kamala being better than Trump is a gotcha that’ll shame non-voters into eating the shit sandwich, but that’s immature. Voters will never be rational and will always pick what feels right over what would lead to a better outcome. Being bitter about it helps no one, especially when it’s a party’s job to make decisions that appeal to voter preferences.
They made so many blunders leading up to the election that I knew who I would be responsible if we lost. As someone who has voted in every single regional and national election since I was eligible, I saw them do everything in their power to be unlikable enough to lose to evil incarnate. It was the last election that mattered, but you wouldn’t think it based on how they ran the country and their campaigns.
They put capital above democracy, put nationalism over human rights, and they never plan to undo the damage done unless the owning class allows it. You blaming the people who lost most from the election only dooms the party to moving further away from liberalism. It’s always the people who own the media, own stocks, and own politicians who are at fault. You’ve already forgotten who to blame, and for that you are a useful idiot.
You are eating your shit sandwich from the dumpster now instead of a plate in your home.
Whatever you blame on the Dems in your lengthy text is foobar’d now to the point of being irreparable.
Guess your hands were tied and there was no way to avoid Trump 2…
Not sure who is the idiot here.
Nope, your “nothing matters everyone is the same” bullshit is wrong. There are different levels of harm and the far right is objectively more harmful to more people.
We’re talking Iran, Venezuela, Iran again, Cuba next, threats against Greenland and Canada within a few months. You really have to be clueless to pretend this is just the same thing that was happening the previous four years under Biden.
Didn’t Obama do the same with Libya Syria and continued in Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, among others? And Biden aided a genocide so not sure what you’re on about.
So let’s be clear: your only example of what was happening under Biden is the thing that Trump has turned up to eleven while also doing all the other things I listed.
I thought we were talking about how a vote for team blue or team red is a vote for genocide and war? The US’ 200 ish year old history has always been based on war, stop trying to argue against it makes you look uneducated. No other country has carried out the level of meddling destruction and annihilation of entire populations that the US has carried out, either alone or by supplying its allies.
If you want to compare, at least 75 thousand Palestinians were killed in the first 16 months (so 15 months under biden, 1 under trump) but the excess mortality is way higher according to peer reviewed studies in medical journals as indirect deaths aren’t counted in those numbers. Still, taking that 75k number, Biden surpasses the rate of killing than what trump has achieved through its operations and its allies.
So, no trump hasn’t turned up things up to eleven. Trump has just burned bridges with some allies and couped a few countries, which is slightly more active than Biden, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Like Mulligrabs said, regardless of which side of the coin you choose, the US is sure to come and destroy everything you have (or supply someone to do it for them).
“Oh but he’s upsetting allies” what the fuck does that matter? The world doesn’t care that a few allies are upset when they’re getting bombed by America.
The US is an empire and I sincerely hope it collapses.
I don’t care to continue this discussion, but it’s clear you shouldn’t make any allusions to someone looking uneducated when your own portrayal of what Trump is doing makes you look like you understand geopolitics at the level of a five-year-old.
I’m so glad I listened to all the posters who said voting for the Democrats was voting for GENOCIDE. Boy we sure dodged a bullet there didn’t we!
Technically speaking, we don’t know what would have happened if Kamala was elected. But I agree with the general sentiment of the message.
Trump, despite being lowest rated president in the modern history is still overrated and overtrusted by people.
Only speaking as a Canadian, but I highly doubt you’d have a president openly threatening the sovereignty of foreign nations, completely alienating your closest allies for over a century forcing them to stop trade with you, and overall make you an international laughing stock.
Sure you might still have gotten a war, but it’s everything else that is uniquely Trump.
These people are so mentally challenged it’s not even funny. I bet they are still around, perhaps on .ml 😉
I’m not sure why people like you feel so confident that some small segment of vocal lefties lost the democrats the election. They are such a small percentage of the actually voting population and strategic voting is just not how most people vote.
The reality is many democratic voters were simply not motivated to vote for an administration that was more interested in supporting a genocide than dealing with the riding cost of living. You can argue that’s stupid or irrational but that won’t affect how voters actually vote. You might as well be yelling at a brick wall. It won’t change anything.
The fact is that Biden, Kamala, and other high level members of the Democratic Party knew that supporting a genocide might cost them the election. They did it anyways. They cared more about Israel’s ability to bomb children than they cared about protecting the American people from a second Trump term. The blame lies entirely with them.
Most if not all of them were bots and right-wing trolls, operating with the objective of suppressing Democratic Party turnout. The remainder (if any) were just gullible.
Ah, but it’s not just those who voted this way. It’s more those who actively supported this idea and were pushing for people not to vote because of it. We’ll never have certainty about how much of an impact it made on the actual vote but I think any reasonable person would concede by this point that the consequences of the result they were advocating for have been much, much worse than just picking the lesser evil even if you believe that lesser evil allowed an unrestrained Israel to conduct genocide. I do think the facts contradict that claim anyway since we’ve seen Israel’s actions rise to a whole another level after Trump has truly let the Netanyahu government loose but even if that wasn’t the case there’s a lot more harm being done both domestically and abroad in addition to that all continuing.
It’s also not just the presidential election by the way, in a world where the House had been under Democratic control we’d probably have seen Trump limited in meaningful ways over the past year.
Because then they’d have to confront the fact that there was whole list of popular (with everyone, not just the left) issues that the democrats where turning their noses up at, not just Kamala’s promise to keep Joe’s genocide going.
But it is funny how the anti-genocide folks are the ones they’re blaming the most for their defeat. No one is hissing at people who wanted single-payer health care for instance. Totally a real winning strategy and not just another smear job paid for by AIPAC.
Honestly, I think it comes down to a form of genocide apologia. I think most reasonable people might ask, “If Biden was willing to lie in order to help Israel carry out a genocide, why wouldn’t he or any of his associates lie in order to protect the corporate profits even if it meant American people would be murdered en masse?” At that point, voting for a democrat feels like choosing to get stabbed in the back so that you don’t get shot in the face. Sure, one might be better than the other but I don’t think anyone wants to be making that choice.
However, if you think your own life has a greater intrinsic value than the lives of people in Gaza you won’t see it the same way. Yeah maybe you would prefer if the Democrats didn’t help murder children abroad but that doesn’t mean they would do the same to you and your children.
Maybe it was the fact that Kamala was fake as hell, or maybe that the Democratic canvassers knocked on people’s doors (including mine) two dozen times before the election, even though I told them every. single. time. that I was voting for her.
Or hell, maybe it’s that she called Gen Z voters dumb after they clenched the 2022 midterms. Or maybe it’s the fact that they didn’t primary a candidate. They kept saying Biden was going to run again and then tried to use his popularity to force us to vote for her. I’m sorry, but that faded Obama magic doesn’t transfer from one candidate to another, especially when Biden was so-so at best with almost no charisma. I was already pissed that we got the rug pull with Bernie for Biden in 2020. To not even get a fucking primary for 2024 has left me beyond bitter.
Still, I voted for her and Fetterman. I will not vote for a candidate I don’t believe in again. At this point, I’m writing in a third-party name. If the establishment can’t learn, then let them burn. Don’t bother with whatever guilt trip of a response you might have. I’m sick of feckless leaders. I will always vote, but I won’t hold my nose for the establishment anymore. Fascism is here, and the ratcheting fuckers of the Democratic Party are useless. It’s just too bad. Trump is essentially burning the country to the ground, but the flames won’t hit the support beams until they can blame the Democrats, and, like always, it will work. Politics piss me off so much.
Yeah, my only advice is stay close to your family, friends, and community if you can. It’s pretty clear to me that Democratic Party officials have no real interest in fighting fascism so it really doesn’t make sense to put any hope in them. Luckily you don’t really have to.
Fascists by their own inflexible nature will eventually force people to fight back in meaningful ways. Any kind of bonds you create with other people can become the basis upon which organized resistance thrives, whatever that may look like. Even though it’s not really organizing, sometimes I think acts as simple as baking cookies for your neighbors does more to prepare for the fight against fascism than voting for a Democrat does. lol
You could have fought facism by voting, like normal people do.
You really can’t fight fash by voting for fash-lite which is what was offered in 2024.
talk to the dem leaders about their failure on that one. You would hope at least one of the parties would be against war crimes. Why werent the DNC? Rhetocial question: because they are irretrievably corrupt and cashed some AIPAC checks.
I think you’d best be mad at that corruption and not the voters put in an impossible spot because of it. Unless you are dishonest, a warmonger or zionist, in which case go on with your prattle.
You didn’t listen to those posters because if you did you’d know they were mad about a lot more than the genocide.
Yeah, what else was it? 😀 How would Kamala have been worse than this? I am genuinely interested 😀
You miss the point. You think Kamala being better than Trump is a gotcha that’ll shame non-voters into eating the shit sandwich, but that’s immature. Voters will never be rational and will always pick what feels right over what would lead to a better outcome. Being bitter about it helps no one, especially when it’s a party’s job to make decisions that appeal to voter preferences.
They made so many blunders leading up to the election that I knew who I would be responsible if we lost. As someone who has voted in every single regional and national election since I was eligible, I saw them do everything in their power to be unlikable enough to lose to evil incarnate. It was the last election that mattered, but you wouldn’t think it based on how they ran the country and their campaigns.
They put capital above democracy, put nationalism over human rights, and they never plan to undo the damage done unless the owning class allows it. You blaming the people who lost most from the election only dooms the party to moving further away from liberalism. It’s always the people who own the media, own stocks, and own politicians who are at fault. You’ve already forgotten who to blame, and for that you are a useful idiot.
You are eating your shit sandwich from the dumpster now instead of a plate in your home. Whatever you blame on the Dems in your lengthy text is foobar’d now to the point of being irreparable.
Guess your hands were tied and there was no way to avoid Trump 2… Not sure who is the idiot here.
I’m not surprised that a person using 😃 emojis didn’t fully read what I wrote. Oh well, it’s not like such comments are for you anyways ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
It’s always a vote for genocide, whether D or R or refusing to vote, the genocide keeps genociding.
USA is world’s largest arms dealer (not hyperbole) regardless of who is in office. Vote for who you want, just for laughs. It doesn’t matter.
Nope, your “nothing matters everyone is the same” bullshit is wrong. There are different levels of harm and the far right is objectively more harmful to more people.
Lmfao you Americans are funny. Non-americans are getting bombed regardless of what flavour of liberalism you guys choose.
We’re talking Iran, Venezuela, Iran again, Cuba next, threats against Greenland and Canada within a few months. You really have to be clueless to pretend this is just the same thing that was happening the previous four years under Biden.
Didn’t Obama do the same with Libya Syria and continued in Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, among others? And Biden aided a genocide so not sure what you’re on about.
So let’s be clear: your only example of what was happening under Biden is the thing that Trump has turned up to eleven while also doing all the other things I listed.
I thought we were talking about how a vote for team blue or team red is a vote for genocide and war? The US’ 200 ish year old history has always been based on war, stop trying to argue against it makes you look uneducated. No other country has carried out the level of meddling destruction and annihilation of entire populations that the US has carried out, either alone or by supplying its allies.
If you want to compare, at least 75 thousand Palestinians were killed in the first 16 months (so 15 months under biden, 1 under trump) but the excess mortality is way higher according to peer reviewed studies in medical journals as indirect deaths aren’t counted in those numbers. Still, taking that 75k number, Biden surpasses the rate of killing than what trump has achieved through its operations and its allies.
So, no trump hasn’t turned up things up to eleven. Trump has just burned bridges with some allies and couped a few countries, which is slightly more active than Biden, but nothing out of the ordinary.
Like Mulligrabs said, regardless of which side of the coin you choose, the US is sure to come and destroy everything you have (or supply someone to do it for them).
“Oh but he’s upsetting allies” what the fuck does that matter? The world doesn’t care that a few allies are upset when they’re getting bombed by America.
The US is an empire and I sincerely hope it collapses.
I don’t care to continue this discussion, but it’s clear you shouldn’t make any allusions to someone looking uneducated when your own portrayal of what Trump is doing makes you look like you understand geopolitics at the level of a five-year-old.
Bold of you to admit you’re a Trump voter