The recent recognitions of a Palestinian state and the October 10 ceasefire have been followed by a flurry of calls to “deradicalize” Palestinian society. The New York Times editorial board went so far as to compare this deradicalization project to the denazification of Germany after the Second World War. These calls have the situation backwards to the point of farce.
  • mrdown@lemmy.worldEnglish
    2·
    1 day ago

    Here we go again you keep talking about Netanyahu which we all know he is a terrible war criminal. Yet you can’t admit that Israel always wanted the whole land . I showed you that Shimon Perez who was his opponent was as bad as Netanyahu. I showed you Israeli leaders all over the decades defending occupation. I will repeat them again

    after the formation of a large army in the wake of the establishment of the state, we will abolish partition and expand to the whole of Palestine - The terrorist and first prime minister of Israel Ben Gurion

    partition might be only a temporary arrangement for the next twenty to twenty-five years - Chaim Weizmann

    The Egyptian Army concentrations in the Sinai approaches do not prove that Nasser was really about to attack us. We must be honest with ourselves. We decided to attack him.” -  Menachem Begin

    https://www.972mag.com/yitzhak-rabin-oslo-accords-aoc/

    https://www.palquest.org/en/historictext/24965/yitzhaq-rabin’s-address-knesset-after-israeli-palestinian-agreement

    We would like this to be an entity which is less than a state, and which will independently run the lives of the Palestinians under its authority. The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six Day War. We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines. Yitzhak Rabin

    There is Israeli leaders that are less honest than others that’s all. All of them do not want a Palestinian state

      • mrdown@lemmy.worldEnglish
        2·
        1 day ago

        So now you even deny that Arafat wanted an Israeli state. Have some shame please

        https://2001-2009.state.gov/p/nea/rls/22579.htm

        The PLO recognizes the right of the State of Israel to exist in peace and security. - Yasser Arafat

        In return Rabin recognized the PLO but not the Palestinian state. So we know very well that it is Israel who never ever recognized the other side based on 67 border

        Since you keep ignoring evidence I have to copy again the same proofs

        https://www.palquest.org/en/historictext/24965/yitzhaq-rabin’s-address-knesset-after-israeli-palestinian-agreement

        We would like this to be an entity which is less than a state, and which will independently run the lives of the Palestinians under its authority. The borders of the State of Israel, during the permanent solution, will be beyond the lines which existed before the Six Day War. We will not return to the 4 June 1967 lines. Yitzhak Rabin

        • couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zipEnglish
          12·
          1 day ago

          I’m not asking whether Arafat agreed to Oslo - we know he did. I’m asking whether you think he was keeping his fingers crossed behind his back when he did. You seem to think this was the case for Rabin and Perez, so why don’t you extend the same courtesy to Arafat?

          I think it would be very interesting for you to read up on Netanyahu’s criticism of the Oslo Accords from back when he was an opposition leader running against Perez. You’ll be happily surprised to find out he was using the exact same arguments as you are now, claiming the other side could never be trusted.

          • mrdown@lemmy.worldEnglish
            2·
            1 day ago

            I’m not asking whether Arafat agreed to Oslo

            You asked if Arafat recognized the state of Israel and he did and I provided you the evidence. I gave you ststements from Israeli leaders from all eras and ignored them

            You’ll be happily surprised to find out he was using the exact same arguments as you are now, claiming the other side could never be trusted.

            You are the one who keep blaming palestinian for the maintenance of the occupation like Netenyahu claim and all Israel leaders refused to give Palestinians a full fledged state with full sovereignty

            • couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zipEnglish
              11·
              6 hours ago

              You asked if Arafat recognized the state of Israel and he did and I provided you the evidence.

              You need to read my comment again then. I didn’t ask whether he stated he recognized it after Oslo. .

              I gave you ststements from Israeli leaders from all eras and ignored them

              Then what do you make of this statement by Arafat?

              Peace for us means the destruction of Israel. We are preparing for an all-out war, a war which will last for generations.

              • mrdown@lemmy.worldEnglish
                1·
                5 hours ago

                His last position was that he recognized israel right to exist. Israel position since it’s creation is no palestinian state ever

                You are not discudding in good faith.

                • couldhavebeenyou@lemmy.zipEnglish
                  11·
                  55 minutes ago

                  But why do you agree that Arafat was able to change his position because of Oslo, but not Rabin and Perez?

                  I’m not discudding in bad faith, I believe you are twisting yourself to justify Hamas sabotaging the peace accords

                  • mrdown@lemmy.worldEnglish
                    1·
                    22 minutes ago

                    You have volunteer dementia. Like I already told you Netanyahu himself admitted that he was the one who sabotaged it . You just hide behind Hamas to justify occupation . Hamas or not Israel has the obligation to end occupation unconditionally. Israel continued killing peaceful Palestinian protestors after the Oslo accords and before Hamas started his first suicide bombing . The number of settlers increased during Rabin and Rabin never acknowledged a full state by it’s own admission . If you have a statement from Perez where he accept a Palestinians state that include East Jerusalem, all of the west bank and Gaza that international laws supports with all it’s right : an army to defend itself, full control over the borders, import and export, natural ressources etc .

                    I will keep repeating the same points that you keep ignoring as much as necessary