• pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
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    2 days ago

    Honest question:

    Why are the US and other countries, backing Israel so hard? I’ve heard they have an amazing spy system, and it seems to be only politicians that back Israel unconditionally. Is it blackmail, keeping our fuck ups as status quo, or maybe “Hamas is evil no matter what?”

    • acargitz@lemmy.caOP
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      2 days ago

      No, it’s cultural affinity (polite way of saying racism) and economic interests (polite way of saying colonialism).

      Same reason why the entire western world was fully supportive of South Africa during Apartheid

      • Zorque@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        It’s also propaganda, AIPAC has been pushing the idea of Israel devotion for decades in the US. I’d imagine there’s similar lobbying groups (in less obvious forms) in other countries as well.

        • acargitz@lemmy.caOP
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          2 days ago

          Falls under cultural affinity.

          It also takes other forms, that are not always very explicitly racist. In Greece for example, a country with a traditionally anti-imperialist people (Papandreou and Arafat were really besties), Israel has become a strategic ally to contain against Turkish aggression. Even Tsipras was cordial with Bibi. Take away Erdogan’s sabre rattling and Greece would probably revert back to sanity.

          • Zorque@lemmy.world
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            2 days ago

            I would say influencing others has less to do with racism and more to do with power mongering. People with power influencing others to get the outcome they want. Plenty of Democratic representatives who aren’t otherwise racist are impacted by them.

      • Siegfried@lemmy.world
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        2 days ago

        Where i live (argentina), Israel’s agenda is pushed in almost every news outlet, especially from the right. Some journalists even wear Israeli pins and have Israeli flags on their desks. And, for real, we couldn’t care less about the near east (dont get me wrong, but i think you will agree that we have our own set of domestic problems). For what I see and what I hear that happens in other parts of the west, I feel that “cultural affinity” isn’t the only card on their hand.

      • wheezy@lemmy.ml
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        1 day ago

        Well said. I probably would have taken 5 paragraphs to explain it so well. Imperialist interest align.

      • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
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        2 days ago

        So, when you say racism, do you mean because of their religions, Palestinians being mostly Muslim and Israel being Jewish? Don’t they look the same?

        • Zorque@lemmy.world
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          2 days ago

          Talk to the Irish and Polish about 19th century racism.

          Limiting racism to skin color is a more modern interpretation.

        • acargitz@lemmy.caOP
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          2 days ago

          I would say two types of racism

          1. Orientalism. Not necessarily Islamophobia because it’s the same kind of racism against Arab Christians. It’s the same brand of racism as the one treating the Balkans as barbaric. It’s cultural racism, rather than skin-tone based.
          2. Antisemitism. Implicitly, if all the Jews go “over there” they aren’t “here”. Even the Nazis originally planned to deport the Jews and only got to slaughtering when deportation was no longer practical. Nowadays the biggest antisemites are usually pro-israel, from Breivik to CUFI.
          • pelespirit@sh.itjust.works
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            2 days ago

            That area is so confusing to me. I learned about it in ancient times in college, but the cultural things like this are so wild. I wasn’t exposed to anything about it besides ancient history. Thanks for explaining a lot of. It seems that oil+racism=so many hate crimes

    • LifeInMultipleChoice@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Honestly don’t know for certain, but Israel pays a lot of money into lobbying in the U.S.

      On a side note I would say Israel is the U.S. guaranteed entry point to that region of the world, so when it comes to intimidating other countries having a foothold somewhere there is of value to the U.S. (vehicle efficiency has increased, and car ownership dropped from 138 million registered in 2021 to 97 million registered in 2023.). So 30% loss in cars., and population increased from ~285m to ~337m during that time. (Irrelevant, but for scale that’s 127% of Canadas population total)

      So the U.S. has stockpiled military equipment in Israel for decadees that is well defended do to shared technologies. This allows for unilateral support if say Bush 1 or Bush 2 wants to manipulate the area for something pertaining to oil prices getting to low/high. Contrary to many, I believe the U.S. ensures oil barrels stay higher in price because the lifting cost in the U.S. is higher. A good example is our oil production has increased by more than double from 2001 till today.

      If the cost of oil in Iran/Saudia Arabia go lower that profitability drops, and some of the largest contributors to the Republican party (oil companies in the west, would see huge drops in income).

      Other countries of interest there. Argentina, Columbia, and Venezuela. Should also mention Brazil, but they have grown closer ties with China who they export most of their excess Oil production too. Harder to impact at the moment, so they likely want to keep them out of direct conflicts.

      Remember Trump sat down in May 2024 asking oil executives directly for $1 billion dollars in campaign contributions to help him get elected with the promise to squash any programs he could pertaining to EV growth.

    • spamfajitas@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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      2 days ago

      I strongly believe some countries feel the need to support Israel through their worst decisions simply because they (Israel) have nukes. It would most likely be preferable to have a friendly nuclear power rather than an unfriendly rogue one, even if they’re frequently uncooperative.

    • mrdown@lemmy.world
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      2 days ago

      Oil and natural gas. Also using it as a proxy serving imperialism interests against the other side of impwrial countries (China and Russia)